Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 He didn't forcibly marry her. Tyrion was forced into this marriage by Tywin, a brutal and domineering man who wants his children to do exactly as he wants to to further House Lannister on pain of humiliation, having their wife gang raped etc. Tyrion was forced to. And btw, she was 13, not 12, not that it makes that big of a difference. No he wasn't. He wasn't forced by Tywin to think that the title Warden of North gave him a queer chill. And yes Sansa was 12 when they married. She says she would turn 13 a month later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Ghost- Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyroin very well could have said no. There was never any threat of violence towards him. Lancel would have married Sansa in his place and Tywin would have continued searching for a wife for Tyrion. He knew he had no chance at the Rock and saw that if he married a pretty 12 year old he could also rule the North through her. He wasnt forced to do anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 No he wasn't. He wasn't forced by Tywin to think that the title Warden of North gave him a queer chill. And yes Sansa was 12 when they married. She says she would turn 13 a month later. My mistake then, sorry. I just subtracted her birth year of 286 from 299 with no regard to months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themengsk176 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyrion is a Lannister. At this point in the story she is still consumed by sorrow at learning that her mother and brother, the last two members of her family (so she thinks) have been brutally murdered, probably at Lannister hands. Now, to add insult to injury, she is to marry one of them so that they might lay claim to her family's 8000 year old lands in the North. That may be partly why she wasn't particularly interested in yielding her maidenly virtue, the last thing that is truly hers, to a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesterX Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I seem to remember Tywin having a plan for Jamie too and I seem to recall Jamie telling his father to F off. Jamie doesn't want Casterly Rock. Tyrion does. Even though Tywin expressly told him it would never be his, he still has hopes to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Jamie doesn't want Casterly Rock. Tyrion does. Even though Tywin expressly told him it would never be his, he still has hopes to get it. Tywin's offer to marry Sansa to him was basically telling him he will never get the Rock thus he should be happy with Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Reaver Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Even if Tyrion HAD been forced (as it turns out, he wasn't, he was convinced), how on earth can you seriously demand of Sansa to know this ? It's not like she was part of Tywin's little discussions/plans about marriage. Victim-blaming in the extreme here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyroin very well could have said no. There was never any threat of violence towards him. Lancel would have married Sansa in his place and Tywin would have continued searching for a wife for Tyrion. He knew he had no chance at the Rock and saw that if he married a pretty 12 year old he could also rule the North through her. He wasnt forced to do anything. I remember somewhere being mentioned that Tywin has some members of House Lannister locked in oubliettes in Casterly Rock, if someone can find that passage I would appreciate it. Also, Tyrion is afraid of Tywin. Remember Tysha's gangrape? He has shown that he is willing to indirectly harm Tyrion when he doesn't do as he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Tyrion is a Lannister. At this point in the story she is still consumed by sorrow at learning that her mother and brother, the last two members of her family (so she thinks) have been brutally murdered, probably at Lannister hands. Now, to add insult to injury, she is to marry one of them so that they might lay claim to her family's 8000 year old lands in the North. That may be partly why she wasn't particularly interested in yielding her maidenly virtue, the last thing that is truly hers, to a Lannister. While I appreciate the sentiment you get the timeline wrong. Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion before the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 She doesn't like him because he is a part of the family that has destroyed her life. Secondly, why should she like him? She is 13 years old and he is like 30? How many 13 year olds fantasize about 30 year old ugly mishapen dwarfs who forcfully marry them? And he did have a choice, he chose his life of continued comfort. He could have refused to marry her if he really wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themengsk176 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 While I appreciate the sentiment you get the timeline wrong. Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion before the Red Wedding. Yes, but being betrothed to someone and the physical act of consummation are two very different things. I was referring more to Sansa's rejection of Tyrion at their wedding bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sansa is willing to forgive people for character traits, such as when she continues to trust in Joffrey and Cercei after she's seen them lie, bully, and betray her and her family. But for being ugly? That's too much to ask of someone like Sansa. Your post would almost make sense if It wasn't for Sansa's complicated dynamic with the Hound, and the fact that Tyrion is from the family that killed her father and actively took arms against Robb's cause when he was Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 There's no way Tyrion could have said no to Tywin. Tywin sees members of his House as chess pieces to be moved however he wants to. Tyrion is no different. That's the plan Tywin had for him, no way he was gonna let a Stark/Lannister marriage opportunity pass simply because Tyrion didn't want it. And Sansa knows all that how exactly?BTW, she doesn't hate Tyrion as much as good folk here want her to hate him, anyway. “Was the dwarf incapable?”“No. He was only . . . he was . . .” Kind? She could not say that, not here, not to this aunt who hated him so. “He . . . he had whores, my lady. He told me so.”A very un-PC thought of her, but here you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 And Sansa knows all that how exactly?BTW, she doesn't hate Tyrion as much as good folk here want her to hate him, anyway. A very un-PC thought of her, but here you go.Because Tyrion has made his dislike for Joffrey, Cersei and Tywin clear to Sansa. Hell, he threatened to geld Joffrey in front of half the court. He obviously isn't 100% loyal to the Lannister cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oba Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yes, it's almost as if Sansa didn't bother reading Tyrion's pov chapters in books 2 and 3. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Sansa Stark Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I remember somewhere being mentioned that Tywin has some members of House Lannister locked in oubliettes in Casterly Rock, if someone can find that passage I would appreciate it. Also, Tyrion is afraid of Tywin. Remember Tysha's gangrape? He has shown that he is willing to indirectly harm Tyrion when he doesn't do as he wants. Unlike Sansa Tyrion had options: 1. Marry Sansa 2. Marry Lolly 3. Marry another noble woman that Tywin would pick. He specifically chose Sansa because he wanted her claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsc Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Because Tyrion has made his dislike for Joffrey, Cersei and Tywin clear to Sansa. Hell, he threatened to geld Joffrey in front of half the court. He obviously isn't 100% loyal to the Lannister cause. Besides Joffrey when has he made his dislike of Tywin and Cersei all that clear in front of her? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Thread title made me laugh in real life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hell, the way her POVs are written, she doesn't even seem to realize that Tyrion is actually risking his life to help her.She doesn't realize because it never happened (as far as she knows, she has no idea about Tyrion spilling the wine from the cup at the PW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panos Targaryen Posted March 31, 2014 Author Share Posted March 31, 2014 Unlike Sansa Tyrion had options: 1. Marry Sansa 2. Marry Lolly 3. Marry another noble woman that Tywin would pick. He specifically chose Sansa because he wanted her claim. Tyrion offered Sansa the choice to marry Lancel instead if she wished. A choice between two evils in Sansa's mind, I know, but she had a choice too. He didn't choose her because he is a power-hungry bastard. He was willing to let her marry Lancel instead if it made her more happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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