Why do you think fans generally forgive Jamie but not Jorah?

[Tyrion1991]

Just a reminder.

Jamie has-

* Tried to murder Bran, a child.

*Stabbed Ned Stark in the street coz he got angry and murdered his men.

* Catapulted prisoners over the walls of Riverrun.

* Twincest with his Kings wife.

The whole Kingslayer thing is worth mentioning but its not something a serious person would hold against him given the circumstances.

To redeem himself Jamie has-

* Saved Brienne and sent her to save Sansa

* Freed Tyrion.

*Determined to follow his vows and reform the Kingsguard

* Symbolically left Cersei by burning her letter.

* Refused Tywins offer to be his heir and abandon the watch.

* Criticized Cersei.

In contrast

Jorah has-

* Sent information to Varys, a confirmed pro Targaryen who wants to make Danys nephew Aegon King.

* This knowledge was relayed to Robert who used it to direct an assassination attempt.

* Sold poachers as slaves rather than hacking their heads off like a good northman.

* Continued sending this information despite having made oaths to Daenerys at least as far back as Qarth before stopping.

To redeem himself Jorah has

* Saved Danys life on multiple occasions and protected her from all threats ie Drogos bloodriders.

* Stopped the assassination attempt, which Varys told him to do and sacrificed his chance of getting to return home.

*Led the attack which won the Battle of Yunkai for her.

* Went through the sewers which won her the city of Meereen.

* Generally given sound practical advice to Dany, ie go get the Unsullied, do not stay in Meereen.

* Been a constant companion to Daenerys that Dany thought she could trust and confide in.

* Tried to get back to Dany and help her in Meereen.

Now, the general impression I get from most people is that Jamie has largely redeemed himself despite his past crimes and people think hes great. Jorah on the other hand is considered to be an irredeemable and terrible character that Dany should have exiled/if not executed and should definitely kill him the next time she sees him.

It just strikes me as so bizarre that an attempted child murderer is considered redeemed but Jorah isn't despite having done a lot to try to redeem himself and his crimes are considerably less than Jamies. Personally I think its coz Jamie is a funny straight talking character and this wins their immediate admiration. Popularity contest basically. I am not sure if theres anything else Jorah could possibly do to redeem himself at this point in the eyes of the readers. Hes already killed Danys enemies, fought them, begged her forgiveness, said he was wrong and won battles for her; came close to dying for her several times. Not much else he can do really at this point.

[Animist]

Jamie is more likable but I still wouldn't forgive him no matter how funny he is for the whole Bran thing. I kinda like him but still can't wait to see some Stark take him down. That's what GRRM is all about.. making you love and hate the same character.

Jorah is mainly just irritating.

[Lord Joker Of FunLand]

Because to me, he only does it because he loves Dany, not because he's trying to be a better person.

Also, he's doing it so Westeros gets invaded, while Jamie does alot near the end to avoid more conflict.

[David Selig]

Because Jaime is much funnier. That's the main reason by far.

[jarl the climber]

Jamie is more likable but I still wouldn't forgive him no matter how funny he is for the whole Bran thing. I kinda like him but still can't wait to see some Stark take him down. That's what GRRM is all about.. making you love and hate the same character.

Jorah is mainly just irritating.

Yeah people just think Jorah is a douchebag and a prevert, its not that they really want him dead, Hes just this hairy old gnarly dude chasing after the hot young Priincess who while considering Jorah a friend and supporter has no real attraction towards and that he is not of a high enough rank to be a proper consort to her in any event. He just seems sort of pathetic but I like Jorah a bit anyways.

[Mark Antony]

They're both scumbags imo :)

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Jamie has-

* Catapulted prisoners over the walls of Riverrun.

He has?

Jorah has-

* Sent information to Varys, a confirmed pro Targaryen who wants to make Danys nephew Aegon King.

He sent that information as a bargaining chip to let him return home, not to help Varys' schemes.

* Sold poachers as slaves rather than hacking their heads off like a good northman.

Poaching is not punishable by death. They would have had their hands cut off or been sent to the Wall.

I'd also throw in that Jorah's crush on Dany is really very creepy.

I haven't forgiven Jaime for what he did to Bran, and I'm not keen on the attack on Ned, but he's a heck of a lot more charismatic and likeable than Jorah.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

The reason is most likely because Jaime is a more important character who is a pov character and therefore we know him better than Jorah. Jaime is my favorite male character, but no way have I forgiven him.

[Tyrion1991]

Jamie is more likable but I still wouldn't forgive him no matter how funny he is for the whole Bran thing. I kinda like him but still can't wait to see some Stark take him down. That's what GRRM is all about.. making you love and hate the same character.

Jorah is mainly just irritating.

Do you think its because hes too submissive around Daenerys and this emasculates the character? I certainly am finding this with the show version of Jorah.

Or do you think its because GRRM focuses too much on the fact that he loves Daenerys in a stereotypical high fantasy way? Personally I think he spent the first book avoiding this so that it wouldn't be jarring to readers and slowly reveal the extent of his feelings for Dany. In ACOK Dany learns he wants her but not to that extent.

Personally I think him being an exile and Jon having Jorahs sword (chekovs gun if ever there was one) is more important than the stuff with Dany. Its just that until Dany gets back to Westeros his story is mainly about Dany and can't be about getting the redemption from his house. Which is more to do with how GRRM strucutured the story and put off Dany getting to Westeros than anything else.

[Mad Monkey]

For the above reasons, and because we get Jaime's perspective in a way that we don't get Jorah's. For me, it's hard to get past that the fact that Jorah casually suggests selling small children into sex slavery as a way to raise money. No qualms or, "it's hard, but we have to do this," he's just, "Oh hey I know a guy in Lys who'll buy our extra 6-year old boys, 20 talents a head,". It's hard to really respect someone after that. Jaime had the opportunity to state his case (in his own POV that is) but Jorah really hasn't yet.

[Metopheles]

Jaime admits his mistakes and Jorah denies he did anything wrong.

Jorah can also be easily made responsible for Viserys' death, Drogo's death and Rhaego's death.

He did not help Viserys and more or less lead him into his doom

He did not make Drogo keep the bandage on, neither kept him from drinking wine what lead to his death

He did put Dany inside the tent, even if MMD said it would kill him, and Jorah, a man so wise, should have known that. And he surely did.

Three betrayals. All fit here. Gold Blood Love. He wanted Daenerys for himself. And her brother and husband and son were in the way.

Oh and he made Dany believe Illyrio would turn on her, which lead to the wonderful Slaver's Bay stories everyone seems to hate.

[Tyrion1991]

I don't think he'll be in love with her by the end of WoW. (he is going to get back with his wife Lynesse IMO)

Do you think that change would make a big difference to peoples perceptions of him?

[NightStark]

Jaime never touched Ned, a horse fell on his leg.

[Animist]

I def can't hold Jorah's crush on Dany against him. Older men will always want younger hotties.. and you can bet Robert Beratheon had his share and I think we'd all like Robert.

I mostly don't like Jorah cause he acts pathetic around Dany..

[Animist]

Do you think its because hes too submissive around Daenerys and this emasculates the character? I certainly am finding this with the show version of Jorah.

Yup it's the submissive thing and patheticness around Dany.

[Mad Monkey]

I don't think he'll be in love with her by the end of WoW. (he is going to get back with his wife Lynesse IMO)

Do you think that change would make a big difference to peoples perceptions of him?

I think that Jorah has the chance to mature as a person as a result of his experiences as a slave (now he might understand why being a slaver is wrong?) That may help his image, in the same way that Theon's suffering in the Dreadfort helped his image.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Personally because Jaime has a personality when Jorah is just blah.

[Tyrion1991]

Jaime admits his mistakes and Jorah denies he did anything wrong.

Jorah can also be easily made responsible for Viserys' death, Drogo's death and Rhaego's death.

He did not help Viserys and more or less lead him into his doom

He did not make Drogo keep the bandage on, neither kept him from drinking wine what lead to his death

He did put Dany inside the tent, even if MMD said it would kill him, and Jorah, a man so wise, should have known that. And he surely did.

Three betrayals. All fit here. Gold Blood Love. He wanted Daenerys for himself. And her brother and husband and son were in the way.

Oh and he made Dany believe Illyrio would turn on her, which lead to the wonderful Slaver's Bay stories everyone seems to hate.

No he does not, he begs for forgiveness in Meereen. Dany complains he did not do this soon enough.

That was Danys choice not to help her brother.

Mirri killed Drogo with the poultice and Dany should not have trusted the woman who killed her baby.

Jorah did not know that. Mirri told Dany that while he was putting his armor on. Dany even thinks to herself that he did not know and was helping her.

The last point makes no sense. Jorah specifically tells Dany to leave Meereen to the Meereenese. We even have his force ghost appear in ADWD to hammer home the point.

[myhousigilisthehousecat]

It's not a matter of what they've done before the books started, but how they have changed in that span. In the beginning, most people like Jorah and hate Jaime. Jaime's changed and Jorah has just gradually shown his colors as a jerk. Jorah is still all stubbornly "why doesn't Dany love meeeeee I'm a nice guy" and Jaime is a much humbler man who is actually getting over his sister.

[Tyrion1991]

It's not a matter of what they've done before the books started, but how they have changed in that span. In the beginning, most people like Jorah and hate Jaime. Jaime's changed and Jorah has just gradually shown his colors as a jerk. Jorah is still all stubbornly "why doesn't Dany love meeeeee I'm a nice guy" and Jaime is a much humbler man who is actually getting over his sister.

Quote me a section where Jorah complains that Dany does not love him despite being a nice guy. Hell, Jorah doesn't even blame Lynesse for leaving him, saying he still loves her as much as he hates.

"Nice guys tm" don't kill as many people as Jorah or threaten to cut the hands off the midwives if they don't come help Dany. As others have remarked about his slaving hes quite a dark and thuggish character.