Tad Williams announces THE LAST KING OF OSTEN ARD, a sequel to MEMORY, SORROW AND THORN

[Darth Richard II]

I've read the hardcover many times without difficulty.

But yes translations can make things longer/shorter. Video games have had that problem since the dawn of video games.

[OlafK]

http://sf-fantasy.suvudu.com/2016/04/reissue-cover-reveal-tad-williams-memory-sorrow-and-thorn-trilogy.html

New art is also by Michael Whelan

 

[ylvs]

On 14.4.2016 at 5:06 AM, Jiriki said:

Dunno about "just", but yes, it's a bridge novel between the old books and the new. Not too much different than A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, except that it takes place immediately after To Green Angel Tower. And it's a bit longer, and is one complete new book instead of separate stories.

To be precise the story takes place between the main plot and the epilogue of To Green Angel Tower. I would call it a bridge novel in so far as it brings readers back into the world of Osten Ard and introduces some of the new characters who will be important in The Witchwood Crown.

[Isgrimner]

On 4/18/2016 at 5:30 PM, Darth Richard II said:

Yeah the hardcover To Green Angel Tower is like, the most massive massive fantasy hardcover ever.

Yeah,  mine first printing hardcover is huge.  It has thinner paper than most other hardcovers and smaller font.  I only have read that version once.   On my rereads for a while I read a hardcover from the old Science Fiction and Fantasy book club, it was a slightly smaller version hardcover.  Kind of sucks that they don't sell the ebook versions as one but instead break those up into part 1 and 2, so you spend twice as much.  Plus I also have the paperback versions I bought before I switched over to ebooks.  So for one novel, I've bought it basically six times.   It is my favorite series so its worth it. 

[Jiriki]

6 hours ago, Isgrimner said:

Yeah,  mine first printing hardcover is huge.  It has thinner paper than most other hardcovers and smaller font.  I only have read that version once.   On my rereads for a while I read a hardcover from the old Science Fiction and Fantasy book club, it was a slightly smaller version hardcover.  Kind of sucks that they don't sell the ebook versions as one but instead break those up into part 1 and 2, so you spend twice as much.  Plus I also have the paperback versions I bought before I switched over to ebooks.  So for one novel, I've bought it basically six times.   It is my favorite series so its worth it. 

I'm in the same boat: bought it at least six times. Now with the new, revised editions (with new covers!) it'll be seven...

[Darth Richard II]

I read TGAT(in hardcover) when it first came out in a single sitting. Granted it was like...18 hours of sitting? But damn, at the time, that was the best book ever. Shit it would probably go in my top 10.

[Jiriki]

A single sitting?! Holy crap! It took me days. That's a half a million words.

Impressive.

[ylvs]

The Heart Of What Was Lost is announced for Januray 3rd 2017 and The Witchwood Crown for April 4th.

Mark your calendars!

[Calibandar]

672 pages according to the listing.

UK version up as well ( don't mind the page count there btw), also early April.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Witchwood-Crown-Tad-Williams/dp/147360320X/ref=sr_1_2_twi_har_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464083197&sr=1-2

We're missing a synopsis for now.

[ylvs]

Plot synopsis: Isgrimnur heading North with an army of mostly Rimmersman to deal with the Norns once and for all.
A few lectures on Norn Culture, a few battles and a huge showdown as well as a Norn POV-character and introducing someone we'll meet again in The Witchwood Crown.

Saying more would break my oath of discretion and certainly send me to a special kind of hell ...

 

[Argonath Diver]

I think one of the reasons I still place this series so high up my list of favorites is that hilariously big hardcover. I felt like such a nerd-badass pulling that cinder block out of my backpack on central campus when I was in college.

[Darth Richard II]

2 hours ago, Argonath Diver said:

I think one of the reasons I still place this series so high up my list of favorites is that hilariously big hardcover. I felt like such a nerd-badass pulling that cinder block out of my backpack on central campus when I was in college.

Ha. I read it in high school. People thought I was insane enough that I read books on PURPOSE, that one blew their minds.

[Lord Varys]

Well, it has been awhile, but there is no reason not to continue this ;-).

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

As to the other stuff:

1. Everybody was continuously underestimating the level of Pryrates' craziness. He was only as powerful as he was and achieved as much because he was taking the risks that everybody else considered to be mad. He had been lucky for a long time, but it caught up to him in the end, when he imagined that he'd be able to control re-incarnated Ineluki.

I sort of get that in principle but one should assume that your average 'good sorcerer/Gandalf guy' should do his best to ensure that his king doesn't end up in the claws of some evil counselor. The first book suggest that Josua knows Pryrates from earlier but there is no hint that Morgenes has anything to do with. And also not Cadrach.

I mean, Morgenes presumably had the ear of King John. He surely could have taken steps to see to it that Pryrates is taken care of even before he acquired to much power.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

2. Yea, I think that Nisses was Uttu'ku's tool, but Ineluki-as-the-Storm King never learned about it. Afterall, his power and presence seemed to fluctuate over time, IIRC, and was at it's nadir in the years following the fall of A'sua. I don't think that his creation was a goal of the Norns, as his actions and his spell seemed to be completely unprecedented among the Gardenborn. But his existence was overall helpful to their goal of killing  all humans, so they allied themselves with him.

That makes sense. However, considering that it was Nisses who helped Fingil to defeat the Sithi the problem of those spells remains. They would have been made by Nisses and/or with his help, and unless he didn't make some spells specifically directed at keeping out the Storm King why the hell should anything keep him out. That just doesn't make any sense, especially not with the Sithi later gathering there - not to mention the Norns and Utuk'ku herself.

I thought Tad would play it the way that Elias had to open doors or erase spells for Ineluki. Sort of the King of Men formally giving up his reign of his own free will and returning it to the Sithi, or something like that. That is also what makes the final focus on Pryrates so stupid, in my opinion. Elias' final mistake should have been his own - he should have been the one instigating the spell which allowed Ineluki to possess him, not Pryrates.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

No clue about Nissess' and Hjeldin's death, but wanting to bring back Ineluki as means of harnessing the destructive power of his spell is entirely in-line with  him being a loyal servant of Utuk'ku. Putting the Storm King in a body really isn't  bringing him back as Ineluki the Sitha anyway.

Well, that's a huge back story gap that could have been filled. Were Ineluki/Utuk'ku already making some sort of attempt to take Asu'a back? Had Nisses eventually realized that he had been used to a degree/was he betraying Utuk'ku by installing anti-Ineluki spells (if he was the guy)? But then, why the hell did he and Hjeldin die if his prophecy was pro-Ineluki? Ineluki wouldn't have had any reason to kill him, or would he?

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

3. As discorporate entity, the Storm King could be kept away from places more effectively than the living Gardenborn? Dunno.

Doesn't make much sense to me. It seems more to me as if Tad forgot what he had established in the beginning and used different rules in the end.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

4. The Storm King was using his initial spell as a foundation for his other grand sorcery, including the time-turning. Therefore he couldn't return to the time _before_ he started casting it. What the spell was originally supposed to accomplish - it was supposed to work as a weapon of mass destruction against the Rimmersmen, which it did, only at that point it wasn't enough. Still,  it allowed a part of his people led by Amaresu to escape and survive.

Okay, that makes sense.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

What the Storm King intended to do with his temporal shenangians apart from slaughtering the Rimmersmen and preventing the destruction of A'sua - no clue. Personally, I thought that it would have been more interesting for the novel to let him succeed and have it turn out like nothing Utuk'ku imagined or Our Heroes feared. _That_ would have been an original,  worthy conclusion to the series, given that it already had a  villain with highly sympathetic motivations. Williams chose to go for the low-hanging fruit of stereotypical "and magic departs" ending, alas.

 

Motivations matter. Giving us just 'the evil guy wants to change things back to how they were' without a motivation what he would do after he has accomplished this isn't very good. I mean, this could have been covered by talk about how Ineluki planned to rule over his people, reunite the Norns and the Sithi and kill all humans back in the days of the Rimmersmen. But we get nothing of this sort.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

Oh, and I never understood why Elias was supposed to be a good vessel for Ineluki - surely a Gardenborn would have been more compatible? Rule of cool, or drama in this case, I guess.

I thought that would have come up if they had had Elias being special because he was 'the king of men' and the lord of Asu'a. But since there was nothing of this sort the only reason why Elias was chosen most likely had to do with him being at Asu'a. But then, one wonders why they didn't choose Pryrates. I mean, he most likely also should have been receptive to the good all 'eternal life' carrot, no?

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

5. They were sustained by the same spell, so they must have died after it failed? OTOH, now that there are sequels in the pipeline, who knows.

It would have been nice to get some information on that.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

6. Simon was attuned to the dreamroads (IIRC) and Ineluki specifically, and  was seen there by him and Utuk'ku. They assumed that he was able to glean and understand much more than he did, so they tried to take him out.

Yeah, but it was just so pointless. One would have thought he had actually known at least something. Something that made him a threat.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

7. I don't remember. Honestly, Elias probably wished his brother dead anyway and his sacrifice may have been intended  for some other purpose. Didn't Pryrates originally promise to bring his beloved wife back from the dead and only gradually changed the hook to personal immortality? And since Elias blamed Josua for her death in the first place, well...

 

Yeah, Elias blamed Josua for the death of his wife. But the point there is that the retelling of events later on gives a time line which has Pryrates capture and then sacrifice Josua to the Norns at a point in time when the deal was not yet really made. So this all kind of weird and not completely thought through. Elias finally makes his deal with Utuk'ku and Ineluki only when he asks for their help in destroying Naglimund.

On 8.1.2016 at 8:22 PM, Maia said:

 

8. I am sure that Utuk'ku had other human pawns waiting in the wings if Pryrates failed to deliver. See Nisses.

Well, it is still somewhat strange. There was at least no evil sorcerer lurking next door as far as we know.

[Argonath Diver]

I thought of this series today. I had visited my parents home, and on looking through my old room from my college days, found a stash of my paperbacks that didn't make it to my own bookshelves. Among them were a bunch of Feist's Riftwar and later paperbacks. I remembered all the great world-building in those first two series, so I took some for the return trip. As much as I am fond of those characters, it really shows its limitations reading it fifteen years later. I roll my eyes at the dialogue and constant dues ex machina every chapter. What I remembered as complex world-building feels more like a DnD Handbook. Still, it's incredibly light reading and I'm a nostalgic fellow.

On topic, it has really helped my appreciation of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn - having just re-read those last year. The Tolkien-ish prose is so much more elegant than Feist's, well, attempts. Even though the characters are relatively black-and-white, high-fantasy style, they're absurdly more rounded than the caricatures I'm currently reading. As much as I've grown into Abercrombie and Erickson, Bakker and Abraham, I still really enjoy MST as my favorite Good Vs Evil series ever, and wish I knew of more like it.

Bring on more Osten Ard!

[kuenjato]

59 minutes ago, Argonath Diver said:

I thought of this series today. I had visited my parents home, and on looking through my old room from my college days, found a stash of my paperbacks that didn't make it to my own bookshelves. Among them were a bunch of Feist's Riftwar and later paperbacks. I remembered all the great world-building in those first two series, so I took some for the return trip. As much as I am fond of those characters, it really shows its limitations reading it fifteen years later. I roll my eyes at the dialogue and constant dues ex machina every chapter. What I remembered as complex world-building feels more like a DnD Handbook. Still, it's incredibly light reading and I'm a nostalgic fellow.

On topic, it has really helped my appreciation of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn - having just re-read those last year. The Tolkien-ish prose is so much more elegant than Feist's, well, attempts. Even though the characters are relatively black-and-white, high-fantasy style, they're absurdly more rounded than the caricatures I'm currently reading. As much as I've grown into Abercrombie and Erickson, Bakker and Abraham, I still really enjoy MST as my favorite Good Vs Evil series ever, and wish I knew of more like it.

Bring on more Osten Ard!

Yes, MS& T was quite different from the bog standard high fantasy that ruled the bookshelves in the late 80's / early 90's. It almost seems quaint now, compared GRRM's uprooting conventions and the 00's grim dark crowd, and it will be interesting to see if TW hoves to his original style or changes it up.

[Calibandar]

Do we know if Whelan is doing the covers for Heart of what was lost and Witchwood Crown?

 

Edit: According to the Osten Ard site he is.

That would be exciting but on the other hand, the recent covers for the MS&T re-release were boring and also by his hand.

[Jiriki]

On 6/1/2016 at 3:30 PM, Argonath Diver said:

I thought of this series today.

 

On topic, it has really helped my appreciation of Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn - having just re-read those last year. The Tolkien-ish prose is so much more elegant than Feist's, well, attempts. Even though the characters are relatively black-and-white, high-fantasy style, they're absurdly more rounded than the caricatures I'm currently reading. As much as I've grown into Abercrombie and Erickson, Bakker and Abraham, I still really enjoy MST as my favorite Good Vs Evil series ever, and wish I knew of more like it.

Bring on more Osten Ard!

I agree that the Tolkien-style prose in MS&T is very good. It struck me again today, as I was re-reading Stone of Farewell, and came across a passage where Amerasu talks about the voyage of the Gardenborn across the black seas. That passage, as well as many others, is incredible.

I don't agree that the characters are relatively black-and-white. One of the main points of the series is that there never are any easy answers: Ineluki, as vengeful and evil as he is, has very good reasons to hate mankind, as does Queen Utuk'ku. Of the main antagonists, only Pryrates and Earl Fengbald appear to be evil with no redeemable, good qualities. Guthwulf starts off doing quite bad things, but is redeemed in the end.

It's the same with the "good guys"; there are many shades of gray: Cadrach, arguably a protagonist, refuses to reveal the secrets he knows until it's too late to do anything, and spends most of his time fleeing his problems or, even worse, robbing people. Sir Camaris, the great hero of yore, turns out to have been an adulterer. King Presbyter John's "holy kingdom" was built on 70 years of lies and deceit. After Lector Rannesin's death, Mother Church is ruled by Velligis, a man too scared to stand up to Pryrates. These are just some examples.

It's one of my favorites, too, and it's hard finding many other series that are similar. (I personally think ASOIAF may be closest to it.)

 

 

[Jiriki]

On 6/2/2016 at 1:49 AM, Calibandar said:

Do we know if Whelan is doing the covers for Heart of what was lost and Witchwood Crown?

 

Edit: According to the Osten Ard site he is.

That would be exciting but on the other hand, the recent covers for the MS&T re-release were boring and also by his hand.

Whelan is definitely doing new covers for the new books. When I spoke to him in person in November 2014, he was very excited about the new projects. He's brilliant, and will come up with awesome covers, I have no doubt. The MS&T re-release covers were, I think, a request by the publisher, in a style that is popular now, rather than typical Whelanesque scenes.

[Jiriki]

On 5/30/2016 at 4:44 PM, Argonath Diver said:

I think one of the reasons I still place this series so high up my list of favorites is that hilariously big hardcover. I felt like such a nerd-badass pulling that cinder block out of my backpack on central campus when I was in college.

"Cinder block" indeed. Like DR above, I was in high school at the time TGAT came out, and dragging that book to school was... an experience. I had taken the dust jacket off, to keep it nice, and people kept asking why I was carrying an unabridged dictionary around. Reading was generally frowned upon in my high school, and carrying a huge book like that attracted a lot of scornful attention. Geek wasn't yet chic.

[Jussi]

The Witchwood Crown can now be found at Edelweiss catalog:

http://edelweiss.abovethetreeline.com/ProductDetailPage.aspx?sku=0756410606

On Sale Date: April 4, 2017

672 pages

New York Times-bestselling Tad Williams’ ground-breaking epic fantasy saga of Osten Ard begins an exciting new cycle! • Volume One of The Last King of Osten Ard

Enter the epic fantasy world that inspired a generation of modern fantasy writers, including George R.R. Martin, Patrick Rothfuss, and Christopher Paolini. The Witchwood Crown begins Tad William’s next masterpiece, bringing together the best of character-driven fantasy, action-packed high adventure, and monumental worldbuilding.

THE LAST KING OF OSTEN ARD: BOOK ONE

Osten Ard is at a critical turning point once again. Ancient enemies, long silent, are preparing to reclaim lands that were once theirs…

Explore more of Osten Ard in Tad William’s landmark original trilogy—Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn—and the new stand-alone novel, The Last King of Osten Ard!

Praise for Osten Ard:

“Inspired me to write my own seven-book trilogy…. It’s one of my favorite fantasy series.”
—George R. R. Martin, New York Times-bestselling author of The Games of Thrones

“Groundbreaking…changed how people thought of the genre, and paved the way for so much modern fantasy. Including mine.”
—Patrick Rothfuss, New York Times-bestselling author of The Name of the Wind

“Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn is one of the great fantasy epics of all time.”
—Christopher Paolini, New York Times-bestselling author of Eragon