Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Stubby

[TWOW SPOILERS] March 2014 Preview Chapter Part IV

171 posts in this topic

Carry on.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a great chapter. Makes me wish George kept the 5 year gap.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so after all that how is being killed by one of those children she loved so much going to give her peace?

Furthermore I think that Arya is the LEAST likely of Cat's children to be disgusted by Lady Stoneheart. First of all, Arya wasn't grossed out by anything even before she was taken in by the FM. This is the girl who plucks worms out of eye-sockets and eats them, preps dead bodies, puts skin masks on her face. She's been killing since she was 9-years-old, and, if you look at my signature line, she wants to kill all the Freys. I think that if Arya saw what the Freys did to her mother she most definitely wouldn't take it out on her.

This observation is correct, but with a twist you can see how it may not be so:

Arya caused her to rise from death. The part of being found by Beric and re-animated by the power of R'Hillor - is that all there is to it ?

Mourneblade states quite correctly that Arya is a special case - magic, divine will, or whatever you'd call it, does seem to play a role in her story. She may have a sort of power that we do not quite see, that works at strange angles to the story.

"Rise" she thought. "Rise and eat and run with us."

The Ghost of High heart saw this as well. She thought it was Beric who smelled of death and grief, but then realized this prophecy was tied to Arya.

So many lives given at Harrenhal, so perhaps the Red God owed her ?

What is Lady Stoneheart if not a revenant forever trapped in Catelyn's last moments of grief and rage ?

So, why not Arya? She brings the gift of death, and in this case, it would be one which ends her mother's living hell.

As much as her un-mother's quest for vengeance is something she can best relate to, she also knows the wellspring of emotional horror that it comes from. She may be willing to suffer those burdens herself, but would she want her mother to live in that state, eternally ?

Perhaps this is a way it will lead her to a greater understanding of "the gift" as a gift.

Edited by Pod The Impaler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and since we're on a new incarnation of the thread ...



Anyone plan to do a "Corn Code" decoding of the way Arya is saying "Mercy" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has it been discussed much, (and in which thread), whether or not Izembaro is Varys? Obviously the comment about sucking things would have to be reconciled either because of Arya being wrong to believe a rumor or because maybe Varys was never a eunuch. Mummer's trick?

Dunno, strikes me as unlikely but would be an interesting twist on the play and how it was so informed... and on Arya's future / political alliances.

Wondering if others have debated it.

Edited by Ser Not Appearing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Varys was in King's Landing at the same time this visitor was, right? Is there another timeline consideration you're referring to?

Depending on how much time elapsed (long enough for a trial and some such?) he could have theoretically established himself... especially if he'd been there before coming back to deal with people.

As I said, I don't know that I buy it but I'm looking for major issues... with enough detail to help me draw the connections in a brain that doesn't always fire well.

Edited by Ser Not Appearing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, why not Arya? She brings the gift of death, and in this case, it would be one which ends her mother's living hell.

As much as her un-mother's quest for vengeance is something she can best relate to, she also knows the wellspring of emotional horror that it comes from. She may be willing to suffer those burdens herself, but would she want her mother to live in that state, eternally ?

Perhaps this is a way it will lead her to a greater understanding of "the gift" as a gift.

So how do you see Arya doing this? Slipping a knife between her mother's ribs? Cutting her head off? Crushing her temple, shooting an arrow through her eye, hanging her, setting her on fire, some other sweet mother-daughter bonding moment I haven't thought of? Besides getting rid of a character you may not like, how is Arya's matricide better than Lady Stoneheart's revenge?

I'm sure GRRM will get rid of Lady Stoneheart in his own good time, but as much as he's given to horrible endings I can't see him having one of his favorite characters euthanizing her mother with an axe, or whatever, especially when there's so many other people Arya could be killing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Na, Stoneheart will be taken care of in the Brienne/Jaime storyline. This will condens POV's and subsequently it is possible to get Sansa/LF/Brienne/Jaime/Blackfish/Freys(?) together in a storyline to streamline,


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So how do you see Arya doing this? ...

I don't envision all this stuff, but other than that I think my point was clear enough on why Arya would not view it as something positive.

Suffice to say, if Arya was the one to put Lady Stoneheart down, I imagine some sort of magic-related occurence being responsible, more than any plainly physical solution.

Edited by Pod The Impaler

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This observation is correct, but with a twist you can see how it may not be so:

......

What is Lady Stoneheart if not a revenant forever trapped in Catelyn's last moments of grief and rage ?

So, why not Arya? She brings the gift of death, and in this case, it would be one which ends her mother's living hell.

As much as her un-mother's quest for vengeance is something she can best relate to, she also knows the wellspring of emotional horror that it comes from. She may be willing to suffer those burdens herself, but would she want her mother to live in that state, eternally ?

Perhaps this is a way it will lead her to a greater understanding of "the gift" as a gift.

I like your theory. Killing Lady Stoneheart would indeed be an act of mercy. I can hardly imagine a worse fate than being trapped forever in a rotting body, unable to experience any form of pleasure, feeling nothing but anger, hate, grief and despair.

People who accuse Martin of being soft-hearted in bringing Catelyn back from death are entirely missing the point IMHO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting again ARYa_Nym. :)

Thank you for taking a closer look at all of the crooked lines, there is definitely something going on with all of that, and it has peaked my curiosity. I have been paying attention to your Arya-Ironborn connections as I feel there is something to it.

I can't help it but the "mad, madder and maddest" part made me think Theon (for the first time btw) although that's a very, very longshot that he gets sent to Braavos with Massey and Jeyne unless he does end up being spared and she demands that he accompany her. :dunno: he is a eunuch now too...

However, like you have speculated, one of the others - Victarion or Euron - are undoubtedly more likely.

There's also Salty and choosing brackish water. It was mentioned maybe that was an AA reference although that is smoke and salt but salt is also sacred to the Ironborn.

Yeah, and I can't tell. Victarion has muscled like a bull. Arya said that of the Hound and we know Gendry was the Bull. But then Euron says men are meat. & Arya said meat was meat and men were prey. She is the Night Wolf.

Now Euron would be way cooler but my problem is that he's possibly a child molester and he's a sadist who will rape or will have someone else rape. Ehh.....

Not to mention I wonder if GRRM will be like once Arya flowers it's fair game.

A sudden shout snapped her head about before she could leap. The ferrymen were rushing forward, poles in hand. For a moment she did not understand what was happening. Then she saw it: an uprooted tree, huge and dark, coming straight at them. A tangle of roots and limbs poked up out of the water as it came, like the reaching arms of a great kraken. The oarsmen were backing water frantically, trying to avoid a collision that could capsize them or stove their hull in. The old man had wrenched the rudder about, and the horse at the prow was swinging downstream, but too slowly. Glistening brown and black, the tree rushed toward them like a battering ram.

It could not have been more than ten feet from their prow when two of the boatmen somehow caught it with their long poles. One snapped, and the long splintering craaaack made it sound as if the ferry were breaking up beneath them. But the second man managed to give the trunk a hard shove, just enough to deflect it away from them. The tree swept past the ferry with inches to spare, its branches scrabbling like claws against the horsehead. Only just when it seemed as if they were clear, one of the monster’s upper limbs dealt them a glancing thump. The ferry seemed to shudder, and Arya slipped, landing painfully on one knee. The man with the broken pole was not so lucky. She heard him shout as he stumbled over the side. Then the raging brown water closed over him, and he was gone in the time it took Arya to climb back to her feet. One of the other boatmen snatched up a coil of rope, but there was no one to throw it to. Maybe he’ll wash up someplace downstream, Arya tried to tell herself, but the thought had a hollow ring. Arya, ASoS

She describes it as a monster which makes me think back to seamonster of course. Now it doesn't kill her but someone else and causes her to slip and fall on her knee. Bow?

This could be Victarion although Euron has been described with tentacles and tall and twisted with long arms. Wolves devour prey and crow birds usually come up behind them and feed on the dead.

But as said about the horn thing Victarion has the horn now.

“Mercy,” the Stranger called, “bring the bloody paste, my horn is coming loose.”

“Mercy,” boomed Izembaro the Great himself, “what have you done with my crown, girl? I cannot make my entrance without my crown. How shall they know that I’m a king?”

“Mercy,” squeaked the dwarf Bobono, “Mercy, something’s amiss with my laces, my cock keeps flopping out.”

She fetched the sticky paste and fastened the Stranger’s left horn back onto his forehead. She found Izembaro’s crown in the privy where he always left it and helped him pin it to his wig, and then ran for needle and thread so the Snapper could sew the lace hem back onto the cloth-of-gold gown that the queen would wear in the wedding scene.

& you know it was called a hell horn. It would be cool if Arya was the one who could sound it and live. She is no man.

Anyways, here's another dragon mention:

“Don’t see why no one wants neither o’ you,” Yoren said, “but they can’t have you regardless. You ride them two coursers. First sight of a gold cloak, make for the Wall like a dragon’s on your tail. The rest o’ us don’t mean spit to them.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and since we're on a new incarnation of the thread ...


Anyone plan to do a "Corn Code" decoding of the way Arya is saying "Mercy" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree on what was said about the Black Pearl except for almost romantic. She has yet to describe a man so positively. I always thought she liked her when she spoke about interacting with her in AFFC.




The woman with him could not have been more than a third his age. She was so lovely that the lamps seemed to burn brighter when she passed. She had dressed in a low-cut gown of pale yellow silk, startling against the light brown of her skin. Her black hair was bound up in a net of spun gold, and a jet-and-gold necklace brushed against the top of her full breasts. As they watched, she leaned close to the envoy and whispered something in his ear that made him laugh. “They should call her the Brown Pearl,” Mercy said to Daena. “She’s more brown than black.”


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and since we're on a new incarnation of the thread ...

Anyone plan to do a "Corn Code" decoding of the way Arya is saying "Mercy" ?

She's chanting to herself as a form of self-goad, as seen in Harrenhal, when she enjoys her position of power as Ghost of Harrenhal; a child play, as it were. She likes it.

Arya understands, on the instinctive level, the tidings of power, what one can and cannot do - and especially the consequences of such circumstances : when you have power, your family can't be hurt or rather you can claim revenge in case they end up hurt.

She knows when she is a mouse, and when she's a she-wolf. I believe that the power given to her by Faceless Men is the strongest tie to her new identity (as a FM acolyte) and cannot be easily broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: I reread the chapter and received my answer.


Edited by RhysHenry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This observation is correct, but with a twist you can see how it may not be so:

Arya caused her to rise from death. The part of being found by Beric and re-animated by the power of R'Hillor - is that all there is to it ?

Mourneblade states quite correctly that Arya is a special case - magic, divine will, or whatever you'd call it, does seem to play a role in her story. She may have a sort of power that we do not quite see, that works at strange angles to the story.

"Rise" she thought. "Rise and eat and run with us."

The Ghost of High heart saw this as well. She thought it was Beric who smelled of death and grief, but then realized this prophecy was tied to Arya.

So many lives given at Harrenhal, so perhaps the Red God owed her ?

What is Lady Stoneheart if not a revenant forever trapped in Catelyn's last moments of grief and rage ?

So, why not Arya? She brings the gift of death, and in this case, it would be one which ends her mother's living hell.

As much as her un-mother's quest for vengeance is something she can best relate to, she also knows the wellspring of emotional horror that it comes from. She may be willing to suffer those burdens herself, but would she want her mother to live in that state, eternally ?

Perhaps this is a way it will lead her to a greater understanding of "the gift" as a gift.

I posted possible foreshadowing for this occurring in the last thread.

I don't know that Lady Stork is playing Cersei. When I read it I got the impression that Daena is playing Cersei and Lady Stork is Catelyn's in play character name. I read it as the character playing Cat trod on Daena's (Cersei) dress she was to wear during the wedding scene. I only read it once so I'm probably wrong but even so I am sure the Lady Stork character is named to represent Cat even if it's the real name of a mummer and not the character name. Also Stork is sort of an awkward take on Stark, as Uncat is an awkward evolution of Catelyn.

There are of course numerous threads about a theory of a second red wedding and Uncat's BWB taking Riverun. I think what we have here is something adding to that notion, Lady Stork tearing the wedding dress Cersei's character is to wear may symbolise Uncat fucking up some of Cersei's plans, specifically with regards to a wedding.

Arya's involvement is intriguing, where you tend towards Cersei I'll throw out another angle, perhaps she will be the instrument of delivering the fallen BWB and Uncat the mercy they're growing to deserve. Uncat's very existence seems to me to be in direct conflict to the beliefs of the FM, specifically how they've taught Arya to deal in mercy. And Arya does help fix the dress/mess.

Also I'm attributing Mercy's role in all this to Arya but as Arya is set to play Sansa (I think so anyway) there may be scope to attribute Mercy's foreshadowing in some or all of this to Sansa.

Edited by chrisdaw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not in favor of her going back to the Riverlands (another travelogue) and going back to kill irrelevant characters. I think this chapter shows the start of a new Arya. She knew killing Raff would cause problems. This is a step in the right direction.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why would you consider Stoneheart or the BWB irrelevant? They've been concocted for some purpose.

Like Uncat their story parallels Arya's rather conspicuously, and having become an inhumane instrument of revenge I think they're good candidates to receive the gift, if not the mercy of death then release from their deathly master. And in meeting and perhaps ending Uncat and the BWB Arya may realise something of herself in them. I think it'd be rather fitting, especially as it was in an Arya chapter we first met the then rather noble BWB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If arya was to be imprisoned when she returns to The Gate would she be stuck with the Mercy face or does she know how to take it off?



I don't expect it but considering the old guard heard her telling lies and she was the last to be seen with Raff there is a chance of it.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0