Jump to content

Arryn connections


Hippocras

Recommended Posts

We don't know who Hoster's mom was. We don't know who Minisa's mom was. And we don't know if Jasper has a sister.

But if he did, it is actually quite likely she would have married a Tully or a Whent to secure neighbouring alliances.

Again, if an Arryn married into their House, it probably would have been mentioned before that the Starks have a claim to the Eyrie. Does Sansa ever think she has a claim to the Eyrie in her chapters? It's more likely that after Harry Hardying comes some other Vale bannerman.

Actually, it's more likely that the Arryns married into their major Bannermens Houses to bind them to their Overlords in the Eyrie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually those things sound like a spurned lover, someone who got rejected by someone they loved...and is crazy.

I also believe it really was love.

Sounds to me like someone who doesn't know what love is, and has never felt the emotion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds to me like someone who doesn't know what love is, and has never felt the emotion.

He literally fought a duel for her, even when he knew Edmure would be the one inheriting things, not Catelyn. So it wasn't because of that.

It was love, got rejected/never got her, and since then he's been on a path of revenge because of it. Classic villain story. So yes, he's felt the emotion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He literally fought a duel for her, even when he knew Edmure would be the one inheriting things, not Catelyn. So it wasn't because of that.

It was love, got rejected/never got her, and since then he's been on a path of revenge because of it. Classic villain story. So yes, he's felt the emotion.

Well to me the duel looks like a calculated move to appear sincere. He knew it would appear foolish to everyone, and that his life would not be at risk, because Catelyn would not allow him to be killed. He used it to legitimize his cover story.

The duel absolved him of the accusation of ambition as motive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well to me the duel looks like a calculated move to appear sincere. He knew it would appear foolish to everyone, and that his life would not be at risk, because Catelyn would not allow him to be killed. He used it to legitimize his cover story.

The duel absolved him of the accusation of ambition as motive.

Calculated move? He almost died, and would have. Dual against someone who is known to be wild, and you truly think he knew he'd survive?

Even ambitious/evil people can fall in love. 0 proof of what you're saying. It's all speculation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^He's very ambitious and amoral now, but there's no evidence that he was like that as a child.

Sure there is. Plenty of descriptions of him as an extremely bold boy. Cat's description of the kissing experiment has her trying to gently brush lips and him shoving his tongue down her throat. Even then he took whatever he could get.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And you think ambitious people can't fall in love?

You just want this story to fit your view, without any proof except he's ambitious and has lied to people.

Omg. No proof he is an ambitious liar? Please.

Let me quote the entire series back at you to refute that. Loads of proof.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Love isn't always respectful, or sincerely unconditional. People are screwed up and they hurt each other and love can turn to hate in the blink of an eye.



It seems your siting LF's ambition for the Vale as some sort of proof Cat & Lysa always had a claim to it and by extension Cat's children would have a claim. Which is at direct odds with your initial idea that the Starks would have a claim.


Non of this has any textural evidence at all.



LF was fostered by Hoster, he became infatuated with Catelyn, a beautiful older girl who was way out of his league, he consoled himself with the younger similar looking sister ( I actually have a friend IRL who did this, two actually. One was a female friend who had a serious unrequited love for a guy in the 6th form but shagged his younger brother as he was not into her, and the other an ex who was infatuated with my mate, but settled for her younger sister when she told him no way I don't date friends ex's) Its not uncommon . LF used Lysa's infatuation with him to climb the social ladder, after having his heart broken due mainly to the fact he was way too low born for Catlyn Tully.



LF took years & years to ingratiate himself enough with the upper echelons of society to make a play for the Lordship of Harrenhall, which is what happened to come up. He tried for Winterfell first don't forget. As Sansa's husband he'd have been lord paramount once the IT beat Robb. Presuming Bran & Rickon had remained "dead".



So he finally gets his hands on a lordship which carried enough clout to wed Lysa, which I suspect was the long term plan when he and she killed Jon, she believing he loved her, him hoping for the Eyrie. The fact he took a swipe at having Winterfell which would mean abandoning that plan shows how opportunistic LF really is. Less mastermind and more manipulator and grasper of opportunity.



Now that he has the Eyrie he still wants Sansa, he is well and truly in lust with her. And again he see's an opportunity to get yet more power through her. And knowing the line of succession for the Eyrie is hardly telling other than that he will have researched it as well SR is hardly a fit & healthy child and his and Lysa's hold on the Vale was always dependant upon his survival. Once Lysa went out the moon door he simply adapts the plan to make Sansa wed Harry and bingo he no longer needs fear SR's death as Harry & Sansa will he presumes be reliant upon him as advisor and confidant, friend even..until of course she gets a child from Harry and harry becomes surplus to requirements...



LF's plans weave and change and flow with the tide of what happens around him, yes he's clever, yes he's devious, yes he plays a long game. But he is not a genious and the pawns often move themselves. What if Jon Arryn had survived the poisoning, what if SR had dropped dead before he gained Harrenhall. What if Tywin had refused him Harrenhall, If any of these had occurred he'd have simply changed his play, the game would have taken longer but he'd have altered his plan. He's not been stuck on gaining the Vale since boyhood, studying which houses might get him there. He's simply grasping whatever opportunities present themselves. Master of coin was the biggest rung up the ladder for him. It gained him accsess to court to the King & the Lannisters. Oh and of course to GOLD, with which to buy swords & spies & power of his own. The brothels too were very very clever, lucritive & giving accsess to powerful mens secrets. He could never have predicted that happening when he was fostered with the Tully's all those years ago. But when the rebellion came along and his angry broken heart was seething he saw a chance to get a leg up via Lysa. Everything from that day on has been the manipulation of chances and circumstances.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah sorry. Yes, I agree ther is no proof of this version yet. It is speculation. I think it is interesting and opens up some great story possibilities.

Which is all fine, but you have to expect people not to agree when a theory really is pure speculation.

Like The Weirwoods Eyes said, love can turn to utter hater in a blink of an eye. I do believe when he was younger, and even when he was older, that he truly did love Catelyn, but then it turned to hatred.

Marrying Catelyn gets him nothing, the Lady usually goes to live with the husband/Lord, especially since Tully lands are Edmure's', not Catelyn's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed, he would never have got the Riverlands through a marriage to Cat, she would have simply ended up in the Sheep dung covered tower house on the Fingers...

Actually, a year or two after the marriage, Hoster and Edmure would have died under vastly different circumstances, with any remote suspicion about the nature of the deaths directed deftly at some other person who happened to be in the way of LF's ambitions.

Catelyn was next in the Tully line of succession after Edmure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...