Are the Starks Out?

[Ahai I'm Jon Snow]

I think Sansa in the future will become another version of cercei ( without the incest)

I think it would be cool fo0r her arc to start playing the GoT, but I think she will just have learned from seeing Cersei and LF play it how it goes.

We will be able to tell by her handling of the Sweetrobin/Sweetsleep situation.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Sansa becoming like Cersei is laughable at best. She has been set up by grrm to be the anti-Cersei the true polar opposite of her.

[roxWolfox]

As an aside, given how pervasive questioning Sansa's "Starkness" is, I kind of wonder why there aren't any debates about whether Ned "as high as honor" Stark is too "Arryn."

:agree:

:wideeyed:

[Bael Abel]

There is no real evidence I have seen that losing your wolf makes you any less a Stark. The Stark name and warging powers are both in her blood. I think that the Starks will meet up in TWOW or ADOS because of Arya's prayer in the Harrenhal godswood where the heart tree told her "When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives." Not having a direwolf around might actually aid her at court, where she'll likely play at being Fille Fatale, regardless on whether she ends up in the Vale, the North, or wherever. If she becomes Lady Arryn, it wouldn't be a surprise for her to warg a falcon.

Crackpot: It'd be cool if Lady becomes an undead WW style creature, but there's little chance of that happening

[MyaStoned]

She was doing her best to keep intact the marriage pact her family made for her. I don't see Sansa's testimony as a reason for the Starks to reject her.

She directly betrayed her father and sister in doing so. Hard to frame that as her doing something on behalf of her family. Presumably Ned was not betraying the family or the family interests, yet she refused to follow his lead and made a liar of him in front of the king in order to support an enemy of the family against her own sister. Her wolf (Stark identity) indeed died for it, and rightly so. Would that her betrayals had ended there...

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Have to agree with the Fact that she is no longer a Stark

Hope I'm wrong though.

It's not a fact. It's not even a Fact. She is a thorough Stark, she continually thinks of herself as such.

I believe your hope will be fulfilled. :)

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

I think one of the things that bothered me until she escaped was the fact that she was still being used as a pawn and a tool against the Starks. In a sense thats what she did to herself. She was being used against the Starks, and in a sense her actions were used to kill her direwolf.

Someone asked me what I meant about Ned and Robert. And yes, it was about Ned telling him about his children. At first I was like most and said to myself, this is a friend, of course you wouldn't do that to a dying man. However, Ned new the consequences of not telling him. I assure you he had plenty of time to think about worse case to even moderate cases of consequences for not telling Robert. All bad.

I also heard many of you say the Starks don't want the Iron Throne. This is just as true as the fact they didn't want to be the Hand of the King. It would be interesting if the Baratheon's are meant to be a path pusher for the Starks. Even metaphorically, the Stag that killed the Mother direwolf. Either way, given the right and loyal groups of supporters, the Starks could be pushed to rule the Iron Throne.

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Oh boy can someone take this. I am not in the mood for another debate -_-

[Faydra]

She directly betrayed her father and sister in doing so. Hard to frame that as her doing something on behalf of her family. Presumably Ned was not betraying the family or the family interests, yet she refused to follow his lead and made a liar of him in front of the king in order to support an enemy of the family against her own sister. Her wolf (Stark identity) indeed died for it, and rightly so. Would that her betrayals had ended there...

Both Eddard and Sansa knew the truth, and both refused to tell it. Had she confirmed that Joffrey's version was true, I would call it betrayal as well. Robert confessed that he knew the truth, but Lady was killed anyway.

[Jojosh]

Sansa doesn't have the wolf blood in here. She could be a Tully though

I think Bran is actually the only stark acting out in a heroic fashion. Sacrificing the rest of his life to become a tree

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Sansa doesn't have the wolf blood in here. She could be a Tully though

I think Bran is actually the only stark acting out in a heroic fashion. Sacrificing the rest of his life to become a tree

So? Ned, Benjen, Bran and Jon also don't seem to have the wolf's blood. Does that mean they are also no Stark? Sansa is also a Tully yes just like her other siblings.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

So? Ned, Benjen, Bran and Jon also don't seem to have the wolf's blood. Does that mean they are also no Stark? Sansa is also a Tully yes just like her other siblings.

Do you think Sansa can really contribute to the Starks legacy still?

[Queen Sansa Stark]

Do you think Sansa can really contribute to the Starks legacy still?

There are two humongous books coming up so it is safe to say that Sansa will definitely contribute to not just the Stark family but as an important pov character - yes she is one of the main characters - to conclusion of this book series.

[Lord Reaver]

"Starkness". What a silly concept. Almost as silly as the thought you could lose it by having some animal die. :dunno:

[Mladen]

Oh boy can someone take this. I am not in the mood for another debate -_-

I beg your pardon, young lady. You think that you can just walk out in midst of debate and leave to other people. What type of Sansa knight are you? The TV season is coming, the spring madness already began and the Sansa hate threads are multiplying. We, Sansa (and reason) defenders are in relentless fight against nonsense of any sort... So, no... You will not sleep, you will not eat nor drink until you crush all Sansa haters... :)

She directly betrayed her father and sister in doing so. Hard to frame that as her doing something on behalf of her family. Presumably Ned was not betraying the family or the family interests, yet she refused to follow his lead and made a liar of him in front of the king in order to support an enemy of the family against her own sister. Her wolf (Stark identity) indeed died for it, and rightly so. Would that her betrayals had ended there...

What a funny and incredibly wrong thing to say. She hasn't lied about Arya's role at the incident, she kept her mouth shut. Her father knew the truth and he never reproached her. Not to mention entire Stark parallels her storyline has. You would think that someone who is not Stark wouldn't have that many parallels from Stark family tree, their home, sigil and their words...

Sansa doesn't have the wolf blood in here. She could be a Tully though

I think Bran is actually the only stark acting out in a heroic fashion. Sacrificing the rest of his life to become a tree

I think that her being Ned's daughter (also one of those Starks without wolf blood) makes her Stark. Of all Cat's children, I think she is the least Tully. Her appearance does remind of Tullys, but inside, Sansa is Stark to the bone.

Do you think Sansa can really contribute to the Starks legacy still?

Yes... Especially given where she is. Also, I am wondering why this question isn't being asked about the boy becoming tree whom no one probably will know for, or the Faceless apprentice who might get herself killed, or 5 year-old child lost on cannibals' island.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

There are two humongous books coming up so it is safe to say that Sansa will definitely contribute to not just the Stark family but as an important pov character - yes she is one of the main characters - to conclusion of this book series.

Not arguing that she can't make a contribution. You are most definitely right that there are two books left, and I'm sure many people's theories are going to make them look like fools, not of least mine :cool4: . But how do you think she will contribute? A theory would be more interesting to analyze then simply saying that it could.

"Starkness". What a silly concept. Almost as silly as the thought you could lose it by having some animal die. :dunno:

I think "starkness" is probably the wrong word to describe it. Sometimes there just isn't a word to really describe it completely. This "starkness" is actually a very common thing seen across great literature. It has a metaphoric part to it and gives purpose to the most common things. I would just remind you that this is a literature work, and you will be shocked to see similar things like this if you are or will become a reader.

[David Selig]

"Starkness". What a silly concept. Almost as silly as the thought you could lose it by having some animal die. :dunno:

This.

[Lord Reaver]

I think "starkness" is probably the wrong word to describe it. Sometimes there just isn't a word to really describe it completely. This "starkness" is actually a very common thing seen across great literature. It has a metaphoric part to it and gives purpose to the most common things. I would just remind you that this is a literature work, and you will be shocked to see similar things like this if you are or will become a reader.

I'll come back to you when you have found a word then, or at least some decent way to describe precisely what you're referring to.

Since it seems to be so common, perhaps you could present some examples, from your vast experience.

Oh, and I loved that snide little insinuation that I haven't read anything before. Precious !

[Northbound2.0]

I think anyone, who is still considering Sansa as a lost cause/lost her "Starkness"/won't care or help her reaming family; are flat out kidding themselves. Sooner, rather than later; she will be in position to start tearing down those who are enemies to her family.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

I'll come back to you when you have found a word then, or at least some decent way to describe precisely what you're referring to.

Since it seems to be so common, perhaps you could present some examples, from your vast experience.

Oh, and I loved that snide little insinuation that I haven't read anything before. Precious !

You could call it a metaphor, as it is being seen by many to foreshadow what will happen to their respective owners. But it could also simply be a motif. Either way they do mean something. The wolves weren't simply put there for nothing, unless you think they are just cute little pets.

If you're looking for examples, one right off the bat that is pretty cool is when Athena pulls Achilles' hair before he strikes Agamemnon is The Iliad. Its suppose to represent the idea of a horse without his rider. It foreshadows Achilles' inability to control his emotions as well as his demise. In someways it shows that Greek Gods aren't and will not always be there to help out the Greek cause.

I'm sure you have read books in high school, like The Great Gatsby, The Catcher in the Rye. They all have small or common things that pertain to large concepts. The authors put them in for a reason. The ring in The Catcher in the Rye, for example was supposed to represent the circle of life. It comes back as motif in the carnival as the mary go around. The fading of the green light in the Great Gatsby is a motif representing his hope and his life. I'm insinuating that perhaps you haven't read and had to deal with those ideas in a while. Its kind of hard to ignore them.