DangeRoose Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 I don't fully understand the Westerling situation at this point. So in this chapter we find out the Sybell Westerling had an "understanding" with Tywin. I think the implication here is that Sybell was giving Jeyne moon tea to prevent her from having Robb's heir. We also find out that Jeyne has skinny hips. I remember when I read this I was confused because I thought earlier in ASOS Catelyin thought she had good hips. So is this the real Jeyne or her sister or something? If so, what are Sybell's true intentions, if she had an understanding with Tywin and is on the Lannister's side why would she be hiding Jeyne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamSongs Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Its most likely the real Jeyne. Jaime tends to describe women as age appropriate. Catelyn judges her as a potential mother as having 'wide hips'. Jaime clearly delineates between teenaged girls and grown women with a comparison to Cersei, hence the reference to 'narrow hips'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 As to Sybell's understanding with Tywin:The official app has confirmed that Sybell actually maneuvred Jeyne into Robb's bed, amongst other things by placing Robb in Jeyne's care. This was done because it would lead to Robb breaking his allegiance with the Freys, since he was just as honourable as Ned, and Tywin knew this about Robb. Robb could not be defeated in the field, so Tywin used Robb's greatest weakness against him: his honour.Jeyne was not aware of this, but Tywin and Sybell had been plotting just that. That the Red Wedding would occur, however, was something Sybell was not aware of. This difference between the two descriptions has been noted by many readers, and discussions are still going on about whether or not Jaime saw Jeyne, or whether or not he saw the younger Westerling daughter. Eleyna is not mentioned to have been amongst those who ride out from Riverrun after it's surrender, though I should mention that Rollam, Jeyne's younger brother, isn't mentioned either, while he was still in Riverrun before the surrender. But Eleyna not having been mentioned is also reasons to doubt.If Jeyne wasn't the girl Jaime saw, then she most likely escaped with the Blackfish. Your question will most likely be answered in the future, IIRC, GRRM has confirmed Jeyne Westerling will appear in a future book, though it was not specified if the book was tWoW, or aDoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangeRoose Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 As to Sybell's understanding with Tywin:The official app has confirmed that Sybell actually maneuvred Jeyne into Robb's bed, amongst other things by placing Robb in Jeyne's care. This was done because it would lead to Robb breaking his allegiance with the Freys, since he was just as honourable as Ned, and Tywin knew this about Robb. Robb could not be defeated in the field, so Tywin used Robb's greatest weakness against him: his honour.Jeyne was not aware of this, but Tywin and Sybell had been plotting just that. That the Red Wedding would occur, however, was something Sybell was not aware of. This difference between the two descriptions has been noted by many readers, and discussions are still going on about whether or not Jaime saw Jeyne, or whether or not he saw the younger Westerling daughter. Eleyna is not mentioned to have been amongst those who ride out from Riverrun after it's surrender, though I should mention that Rollam, Jeyne's younger brother, isn't mentioned either, while he was still in Riverrun before the surrender. But Eleyna not having been mentioned is also reasons to doubt.If Jeyne wasn't the girl Jaime saw, then she most likely escaped with the Blackfish. Your question will most likely be answered in the future, IIRC, GRRM has confirmed Jeyne Westerling will appear in a future book, though it was not specified if the book was tWoW, or aDoS. Thanks for the help, I thought I was never going to get a good answer lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaTechPC Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 This was another plot point that totally went over my head. Maybe I've been too influenced by the TV show but I never considered that Jeyne was actually a Lannister plant all along. Tywin really was quite the amazing player of the GoT. Almost as brilliant as Baelish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 This was another plot point that totally went over my head. Maybe I've been too influenced by the TV show but I never considered that Jeyne was actually a Lannister plant all along. Tywin really was quite the amazing player of the GoT. Almost as brilliant as Baelish!The sad thing about it is that Jeyne had been sincere, and was not aware of her mother plotting with Tywin. Thanks for the help, I thought I was never going to get a good answer lol.Haha, no problem.The app also states that Jaime was wrong in assuming that Tywin had promised Joy Hill as a bride to the Westerlings. Sybell got really angry when he suggested that that had been what Tywin had meant, so I wonder if that incident is going to affect the Lannisters in any way in he future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhaenys_Targaryen Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 About Jeyne's hips.. I've been informed that the difference in description of the hips of Jeyne was an error, and has been corrected in newer editions :)Making it more and more likely that it truly was Jeyne who went West with Edmure and Sybell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangeRoose Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 About Jeyne's hips.. I've been informed that the difference in description of the hips of Jeyne was an error, and has been corrected in newer editions :) Making it more and more likely that it truly was Jeyne who went West with Edmure and Sybell. Wow that's very susprising. It seemed like a classic GRRM clue the way it was written. Hips aren't descirbed that often and these two different descrptions really stood out to me. I'm suprised this big of an error made it past the editors. Also I just bought ASOS and AFFC a few months ago and the error is still there so the correction must have happened quite recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FakeJaqenH'ghar Posted July 13, 2014 Share Posted July 13, 2014 So Tywin planted Jeyne into Robb's bed, through Sybell? But Jeyne was oblivious to the idea that her mom was using her as a pawn? And Sybell is Maggy the Frogs granddaughter. George never ceases to amaze me...AFFC turned out to be so much better than what all the criticism suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QOTSA Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 So Tywin planted Jeyne into Robb's bed, through Sybell? But Jeyne was oblivious to the idea that her mom was using her as a pawn? And Sybell is Maggy the Frogs granddaughter. George never ceases to amaze me...AFFC turned out to be so much better than what all the criticism suggested.Agreed. I expected the worst and was surprised that once I got into the combined read I couldnt wait to get back to some of AFFC chapters and finish it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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