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As to the Adaptation, am I the only one...


tolthar

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As a massive and wide-ranging book reader who has seen a lot of film and tv adaptations of all sorts of books: this is one of the most well done book-to-screen adaptations ever.

In absolute terms it doesn't match the books, but it's actually almost empirically impossible to make a screen version of anything else other than a short story that does the book version justice. I'd say the only other successes in that regard is the old black and white film version of To Kill a Mockingbird, and the 1990's BBC TV version of Pride and Prejudice. There are just too many differences between the two mediums for a one-to-one translation work.

I was thinking of that Pride and Prejudice adaptation with this thread. I've re-watched it several times and I think it may arguably be one of the most faithful and best adaptions from book to screen.

I get that HBO will have nudity, which is fine, but agree with the comments that when it serves little purpose and seems wasted on some small plotline - I'd rather see that time devoted to more of the actual story.

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The scene with Overyn was good. Every non-reader I know immediately a picture of what he really is. This is really important for know. Other than that, there really were gratuitous sex scenes that I don't deem necessary. They would do better by concentrating more on clever dialogues as they did in this first episode IMO. As for the quality of the adaptation, I am not a purist. Therefore, I don't care about specific dialogues or secondary characters. What is important is the main story, preserving its main events, main characters, motivations, etc. Here, they made a great job in most cases, I think. Depicting Stannis as being manipulated by Mel is not the best move, but they still have time to correct that. It would be another comeback: Stannis standing for himself and saving the day. What matters is that the non-readers get a good impression of what he is capable of in the good sense.


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Hmm...where are all the 'Stannis character assassination' replies? :P

......

Overall I've liked the adaption and think they've done a good job, but not anywhere near brilliant. In too many cases their priorities have seemed out of whack and their planning not turning out well. In certain cases I think they've really missed the mark in terms of characterization, and not just when it comes to minor characters.

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Watch Dune, both the movie and the TV series.

Watch Watchmen

These are terrible adaptations.

Game of Thrones is actually a pretty great and incredibly accurate depiction of the books.

The only problem I have with it is that it's set in Medievil England and not Westeros in my eyes.

I have to disagree about Watchmen. It was a decent adaptation. It was a boring movie, it was a boring book. In my opinion one of the most overrated books (graphic novel or otherwise) ever.

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It's a decent adaptation.

The majority of season 2 was a mess. I will never understand the Talisa change. Dany in Qarth was silly. And they absolutely ruined the HotU.

I loved season 1 and season 3 was better than 2.

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Crackclaw deletion - I said as much previously and was shouted down. Some see it as critical for some reason. I really felt it was filler as GRRM was trying to undo the Meereenese Knot.

Knowing Pod - so it could be:

A) Brienne "So Pod, ummmmm, you're that sex god then hey? Wink Wink Nudge Nudge" (Audience - oooo errrr, that's right, he's the sex god!)

B) Brienne "So Pod, you killed a Kingsguard?" Pod "Yes, he was going to kill Lord Tyrion" (Audiece - Ohhh that's right, he's the kid who saved Tyrion)

I'll take a serving of B), please, no anchovies.

Jaime in KL - It could have some problems but I am more than happy to see how it pans out.

Arya - I am actually very happy with how they have gone about it.

Theon - I agree with you. It was distasteful, but it was supposed to be. Did it go too far? I think not. He has far more skin and body parts still on his person than in the books. Having Reek magically appear would have been far too much of a WTF for the screen. The actual physical torture didn't really take up much time. The dialogue and mental torture had to be shown to make the breaking of Theon believable.

Nudity - The problem isn't really the nudity, it was the overuse of the brothel scenes that has caused the reaction. Pod's scene came at a time when many were just 'over it' and at a time when other stories were floundering.

Agree 100%

But they are too busy planning the climax of Pod-the-Sex-God's super powers.

As long as Littlefinger isn't directing whores fully dressed, or Theon telling bitches to TURN OVER, I might live through it, LOL Really, I do hate most of the extra, gratituous sex stuff, but Pod is Precious. :P

The Wall and Beyond and Jon Snow specifically has been a mess the past couple seasons. I was pleasantly surprised by all of that on the premiere, I'm a little hopeful that they MIGHT be getting some of that on track. Fingers crossed.

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I was thinking of that Pride and Prejudice adaptation with this thread. I've re-watched it several times and I think it may arguably be one of the most faithful and best adaptions from book to screen.

I get that HBO will have nudity, which is fine, but agree with the comments that when it serves little purpose and seems wasted on some small plotline - I'd rather see that time devoted to more of the actual story.

I do think the big problem is actually, yes, all the filler, but I think we're just getting tired of Littlefinger's effing brothel, ya know? Jeez, isn't there ANY competition?

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It is an adaption that has to appeal to a wide audience. They have to cater to the bigger public if they want to finance 7 or more seasons of a very expensive show. There is no way that the could have made a page for page book to screen adaption. Considering that and also the huge cast of characters they did a great job with preserving the main story and getting most of the characters (The Robb-Talisa Arc aside) right. Also given that GRRM does not write the script for every single episode and people tend to view things differently there will always be some elements that are the show writers own viewpoints and opinions on the characters (which do not necessarily have to be the same as yours or mine) included in an adaption.


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The scene with Overyn was good. Every non-reader I know immediately a picture of what he really is. This is really important for know. Other than that, there really were gratuitous sex scenes that I don't deem necessary. They would do better by concentrating more on clever dialogues as they did in this first episode IMO. As for the quality of the adaptation, I am not a purist. Therefore, I don't care about specific dialogues or secondary characters. What is important is the main story, preserving its main events, main characters, motivations, etc. Here, they made a great job in most cases, I think. Depicting Stannis as being manipulated by Mel is not the best move, but they still have time to correct that. It would be another comeback: Stannis standing for himself and saving the day. What matters is that the non-readers get a good impression of what he is capable of in the good sense.

I am hopeful for Stannis this year. They went overboard trying to show the somewhat down turn that Stannis took after the Blackwater. I'm even more hopeful after seeing episode one, since I finally recognized Jon Snow again. There MIGHT still be hope for Stannis.

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It's a fine adaption, it's some of the best TV around and has been in an era when writing/acting/etc is pretty much at the tops.



Are there gaps & short comings? Absolutely. Are there places where it exceeds the books? Well, not as many as short comings, but there are some.



Where I have seen the most gaps is when the plotting does go away from the books - not that it isn't a direct word for word adaption, but when new plots are created, some of the new characters or characters removed, etc.


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It's a fine adaption, it's some of the best TV around and has been in an era when writing/acting/etc is pretty much at the tops.

Are there gaps & short comings? Absolutely. Are there places where it exceeds the books? Well, not as many as short comings, but there are some.

Where I have seen the most gaps is when the plotting does go away from the books - not that it isn't a direct word for word adaption, but when new plots are created, some of the new characters or characters removed, etc.

I agree. They do well when they are still riffing on the GRRM stuff, whether they condense it or change it around, but when they have completely struck out on their own with invented plot lines and characters...not so much.

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And do those viewers care about the complex characters? The political plotlines? The moral ambiguity? I doubt it and I don't think that D+D should be targeting the show at those people. I think the majority of people would rather the show just got on with the story. If that story logically ends up in a brothel then I'm sure most people can appreciate a side-dish of fanservice, but side-dishes are just that. They need a main meal (aka plot) to go with them.

I feel like I use food metaphors too much when talking about narrative, but the point stands.

I suspect some people like some aspects more than others, and wouldn't watch if their favorite"dish" were not offered. Since D+D can't let viewers order from the menu, they have to put out a spread where every customer can get helpings of what they like. Some people fill up on chips and salsa.

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It could have been a lot worse, but it also has the potential to be better than it is.








I agree. They do well when they are still riffing on the GRRM stuff, whether they condense it or change it around, but when they have completely struck out on their own with invented plot lines and characters...not so much.







Yes, this. Their own original ideas aren't that original or very good either. They're sort of mediocre.


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I think it's a really great adaptation. I get extremely excited for it every week. I understand that writing a television show is different to writing a novel so most changes don't get to me. I think it maintains the spirit of the novels and that's the most important thing. I embrace many of the changes too because there's great potential in them. I have no problem with Jaime arriving in King's Landing earlier because he gets to interact with Joffrey and assimilate back into King's Landing before all the shit goes down. My main gripes with the show so far have been:



1) Changing Asha's name to Yara. It feels like an insult to our intelligence. We can tell the difference between Asha and Osha. Just like we could tell the difference between Jon Arryn and Jon Snow.



2) The Robb and Talisa storyline in Season 2. It worked well in the end with that extra layer of tragedy in Talisa and her unborn child being killed but their arc in Season 2 was silly romcom fare. The plucky nurse with her very modern notions of warfare admonishes the king and he falls for her completely. GRRM has said himself that the peasant girl would have her tongue cut out for talking like that to the king and he's right. Granted, Talisa is eventually revealed to be of noble birth but Robb didn't know that. Then I hated the way Robb (who really can't pass for 18 or whatever age he's supposed to be) decides to throw a big immature "fuck you" at his mother and marry Talisa out of spite (and love too I know). Basically Robb came across stupid yet sympathetic in the books when he married Jeyne but he just comes across borderline delusional on the show.



3) The whitewashing of Tyrion and Catelyn. They've removed nearly all their flaws. Tyrion is the white knight of the show (whereas he was greyer even in the earlier novels) while the show found a way for Catelyn to feel remorse for how she treated Jon Snow. I liked that scene where she made the confession about Jon Snow simply because of Michelle Fairley's acting but it took aways some layers from her character. While I can forgive that scene to an extent, I dislike the way Catelyn's character became all about her maternal instincts and less on the savvy, political and often rational (when not ruled by emotion) side.



4) The recasting of Daario Naharis and Gregor Clegane. Obviously the show can do nothing about this but it's a shame there has been so many recasts. I watched Season 4 with a few friends and they were confused about the new guy playing Daario and they were like "Where did Khaleesi pick up this guy? (It also drives me nuts how the TV fanbase think her name is Khaleesi)"



5) The symbolism. I think the show has been hurt in refusing to be trippy and trying to ground Bran's green dreams and Dany's House of the Undying scenes. They could have done a Joss Whedon "Restless" on some of those scenes and really foreshadow what's to come.



6) Bran's storylines and Theon's Season 3 storyline. The pacing when it comes to these storylines is poor but that's also a fault in how much coverage GRRM gave them in his novels.



7) Shae. I'm not averse to changing Shae up and I've liked her scenes with Sansa but her petty attitude with Tyrion is annoying and was particularly grating in 4x01.



That said, I am able to overlook most of these things and think the show has fantastic casting, production values and gets the big moments across perfectly. The writing could be improved slightly though.


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I suspect some people like some aspects more than others, and wouldn't watch if their favorite"dish" were not offered. Since D+D can't let viewers order from the menu, they have to put out a spread where every customer can get helpings of what they like. Some people fill up on chips and salsa.

If you seek to appeal to two demographics, chances are you're just going to end up annoying both. At the moment GoT seems to be trying to cater to two separate audiences on completely different ends of the intellectual spectrum - those who are interested in the characters and scheming, and those interested in boobs. Not to say those interested in boobs are necessarily unintelligent, but they're not really pursuing that intelligence when they're watching GoT just for the nudity. They're juggling two demographics which couldn't be more different if they tried and I really doubt that it's helping the show. People interested in the complex narrative are going to be frustrated whenever a random brothel scene pops up. People only interested in boobs are going to give up sitting through all the complicated stuff and instead just venture forth into the internet to get what they want.

I have no problem with sex scenes where it progresses the plot, or even incidental fanservice/nudity that doesn't take up screen time all by itself. But the random brothel scenes have got to stop.

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