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Werthead

GOODKIND VIII: It's Not Terrorism If We Do It!

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Seemed like a good place to stop the last thread. Or, more likely, I was going off to play Ghost Recon and wanted to start the next thread first ;)

Take it away people!

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Love the new subtitle. :D

Now we need new quotes to get things really started....

(off-topic: just want to thank the GK thread and the people behind it, for without this thread, I wouldn't have made it to Hedge Knight. ;))

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So we need the spell 'Summon Moose'?

Just to reiterate the obvious: no personal attacks or flamings on other posters and try to stay on-topic. The emergence of 'good fascism' as the theme of the new book will no doubt generate a lot of discussion, but if it wanders off-topic to a Hitler vs. Stalin debate or something, then take it to the General Chatter.

Cheers!

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Now we need new quotes to get things really started....

Good morning and welcome to the Terry Goodkind Quote of the Day. Many of you have been concerned about Richard’s plan to bring the war to the Old World and kill children if necessary. But I’m here to tell ya, it’s okay. I should have posted this first to improve your moral clarity and make you see the truth. That killing the children of the Order is, in fact, the only moral thing to do. It would be absurd and maddening to reproduce Jebra’s entire twenty page description of what the Order does, so I’ll just quote a little snippet of it entitled “Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children!!â€

“What of the children?†Richard asked. “You said that they didn’t kill the younger boys.â€

Jebra took a deep breath before she began again. “Well, from the very first, the boys had been gathered together and organized by age into groups of what I can only describe as boy recruits. They were regarded, not as captured Galeans, not as the conquered, but as young members of the Imperial Order liberated from people who would only have oppressed them and corrupted their minds. The blamed for the wickedness that necessitated the invasion was placed on the older generations, hot these young people who were said to be innocent of their elders' sins. Thus they were separated, physically and spiritually, from the adults, and thus was begun their training.â€

<snip>

“After training for a time the boys began to earn rank and standing within their group for a variety of things-whether it be in games of skill and strength, or in memorizing their lessons in the righteous ways of the Order. As I would rush about in my duties for the officers I would see the boys standing at attention before their groups, reciting back the things they had been taught, speaking of the glory of being part of the Order, of their honorable duty to be part of a new world dedicated to the advancement of mankind, and of their willingness to sacrifice for that greater good.

“Even though I never really had the chance to learn the specifics of what these boys were being taught, I remember a line shouted incessantly as they stood at attention: ‘I can be nothing alone. My life has meaning only through dedication to others. Together we all are one, of one mind, for one purpose.’ <We are the Borg, you will be assimilated, resistance is futile.>

“After emotionally charged rallies the boys were brought in their groups to watch executions of ‘traitors to mankind.’ They were encouraged to cheer when each ‘traitor’ died. Their Order leaders stood proud and tall before the boys, backs to the bloodbath, saying, ‘Be strong young heroes. This is what happens to the selfish betrayers of mankind. You are mankind’s future saviors. You are the future heroes of the Order, so be strong.’

“Whatever trepidation the boys may have had at first, under the long and ceaseless indoctrination, guidance, and constant encouragement of the officers, those boys cheered. Even if it was not sincere at first, it seemed to become so in the end. I saw how the boys began to believe-with real fervor-the things they were being taught by adults.

“The boys were encouraged to use knives issued them to stab the freshly killed ‘traitors.’ This was only one of the ways they were systematically desensitized to death. In the end, the boys were earning rank by participating in the executions. They stood before empty-eyed captives and lectured them on their selfish ways, their treason to their fellow man and the Creator. The boy then condemned that individual captive to death and on occasion even carried out the deed. Their fellows applauded their zeal for helping to purge mankind of those who had resisted the holy teachings of the Order, those who had turned away from their Creator and their divine duty of service to their fellow man.

“Before it was over, almost every one of those boys had a hand in the butchering of the captives. They were praised as ‘heroes’ of the Order. At night, in their barracks, the few boys who would not go along with participating in the executions became outcasts and were eventually stigmatized as cowards or even sympathizers of the old ways, for being selfish and unwilling to support their fellow man-or, in this case, boy. They were most often beaten to death by their group.â€

<snip>

“In the end, the only people of Galea left alive were the boys and the women who didn’t die during the brutal rapes and then as whores for the soldiers. In the end, the older boys were participating in the rapes as part of their initiation and as rewards for their enthusiasm during their assignments, including the executions.â€

~Terry Goodkind, Phantom

So you see? These kids have all gotta go.

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:stunned:

:bang:

Will to live...ebbing. But isn't this just an extension of the earlier plot with the naked boy army running around in the snow or something? Was that the Order as well or some other force of anarchistic evil?

P.S. remember not to do the one-line replies people.

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Foolish brainwashed children. If only they'd realised that instead of dedicating their lives to the Imperial Order, the advancement of mankind and the greater good they should have been dedicating their lives to the advancement of Richard Rahl, the nobility of life and er, the greater good (but a better greater good, obviously). Then that nice Captain Zimmer wouldn't have to cut their ears off and kick them in the jaw. But it's the only way they'll learn to respect life.

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:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

Ok, I get it, they are the bad guys - but why do they seem more pleasant and likable than Richard et al???

alos, compared with every other training montage I've read/seen, that was AWFUL.

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So Boy Scouts = Bad? :lol:

It takes a lot of writing to make a simple point. And why is every long, drawn-out point made by one character telling people? You'd think they'd lose their voices halfway through.

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So Boy Scouts = Bad? :lol:

It takes a lot of writing to make a simple point. And why is every long, drwn-out point made by one character telling people? You'd think they'd lose their voices halfway through.

I agree. After every couple pages I feel the desperate need for a drink. You'd think they would at least occasionally need to take a sip of water.

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So we need the spell 'Summon Moose'?

Werthead, your summoning spell's really good. ;)

It takes a lot of writing to make a simple point. And why is every long, drwn-out point made by one character telling people? You'd think they'd lose their voices halfway through.

Or their breath. GK'scharacters must have three lungs, or two lungs the size of monster truck tires

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Yes, it would seem that Richard is being merciful when he orders his terrorist squads to kill children. Death is a better option than living like this. I imagine that the author will think that the same solution should be applied to child soldiers in so many wars in our days.

One think that strikes me as surprising, well not surprising at all after reading so many excerpts of SOT and other Terry Goodkind wise musings, is his hatred to self sacrifice. I know that this is an Objectivist thing, but try to imagine an army following this philosophy. It simply wouldn't fight. In fact the origins of Democracy were based in the very concept of solidarity and self sacrifice. In a Greek Phalanx, each citizen fought beside the other citizens, some of them in the first ranks that were the most dangerous. Why were they doing so? Because they understood that freedom could only be defended with sacrifice and solidarity. A father would place himself in the front ranks so his son could be placed behind them in a safer place, a friend would stand beside a friend, neighbour beside neighbour, shoulder to shoulder, all of them knowing that the freedom of their city state depended on their capacity to resist together.

There are times when I amuse myself thinking about a Victor Davis Hanson and Terry Goodkind having a discussion about this.

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There's a scene in Faith of the Fallen where Kahlan and the Aes Sedai Sisters of the Light have enlisted the help of children in the war effort. Aiding in making nasty weapons and such.

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There's a scene in Faith of the Fallen where Kahlan and the Aes Sedai Sisters of the Light have enlisted the help of children in the war effort. Aiding in making nasty weapons and such.

What, really??? :o

Hypocracy in Tairy G--dK-nd's story?

I must admit to being shocked, surely that kind of thing is only done by the Evil people, who as we know are not Richard et al...

Or are these enlightened children who value their freedom and chose to build weapons for the slaughter of innocent women and children?

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Careful, people. We almost achieved a serious discussion in that last thread, and this latest QotD is certainly in line with the atrocities happening in Sierra Leone et al. (turning war orphans into slaves and guerrilla fighters).

Second: Also voted for the Yeard at Urban Dictionary. :lol:

Third: Beautiful Review at Amazon, Moose.

Fourth: Er....can't think of one.

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Or are these enlightened children who value their freedom and chose to build weapons for the slaughter of innocent women and children?

Well, they're definitely on the road to enlightenment and moral clarity. The children help grind glass into a fine powder which will be carried on the wind to get in the eyes and lungs of the enemy soldiers. It's funny that in Phantom Richard seems to rue that his army has been trying to play by the rules against the Order, but Richards army is always trying to find the nastiest things to do to them.

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“Won’t somebody PLEASE think of the children!!â€

“In the end, the only people of Galea left alive were the boys and the women who didn’t die during the brutal rapes and then as whores for the soldiers. In the end, the older boys were participating in the rapes as part of their initiation and as rewards for their enthusiasm during their assignments, including the executions.â€

~Terry Goodkind, Phantom

So you see? These kids have all gotta go.

Like I said in GK VI: Hide the Children. Now.

And since we're in the topic of children, I present a parody of the infamous Sunday School lesson:

Some peple brought their children to Richard Rahl so that he may bless them and teach them his moral, righteous and objectivist ways. But Zedd and the others told them to stop bothering Richard.

When Richard saw this, he became angry. With his thing rising, he heaved his chest manfully and said, "Let the children come to me! Don't try to stop them!"

As the children went forth to him, he gave them a powerful roundhouse kick and broke every child's jaw and unwittingly cut off their tongues.

As the children lay twitching on the ground, blood pooling around them, Richard looked at the crowd and said, "All our children are innocent. But remember, even children can be used for evil. Therefore, it is my moral duty to make sure they will never be used in such ways I have cut off their tongues and broken their jaws so they that they may speak no evil." Then Richard laughed. Zedd laughed. The crowd laughed, and finally the parents laughed as well.

I'm so going to hell for this.

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:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

Ok, I get it, they are the bad guys - but why do they seem more pleasant and likable than Richard et al???

alos, compared with every other training montage I've read/seen, that was AWFUL.

It may have been bad but then any training montage can be improved by the judicious use of a Survivor song. Indeed I would recommend that the band start writing one for the film's future release so that it can be included.

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Careful, people. We almost achieved a serious discussion in that last thread, and this latest QotD is certainly in line with the atrocities happening in Sierra Leone et al. (turning war orphans into slaves and guerrilla fighters).

Yeah, I was just thinking of Sierra Leone and Liberia when I was reading that :sick: Some things are just very sad, but we seem to let happen anyways. Sadly, I think the 'solution' that a Goodkind would suggest would be worse than the situation, because I have strong doubts that he values rehabilitation and reintegration of these scarred children into everyday life. It seems more and more (reading the recent QotDs and memories of the first 7 books) that he's all for the punishment and retribution rather than for social treatments of violence. Le sigh.

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A question for those who have either read Rand and/or have read other Objectivists. Can Goodkind be considered to be an average objectivist, (but with lacking writing skills), or is he an outcast. Where does he fit in the Objective firmanent? Are most of these ideas commonplace with Objectivists, or restricted to TG?

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[mod] To clarify once again:

One-line posts are fine, if they contribute. That is, if they are not simply saying 'yeah', 'that was great', 'OMG', ' :sick: :sick: :sick: ', etc.

These threads grow fast. Unnecessary contributions make them grow faster, which can be confusing and makes it harder for readers to keep up - not to mention wasting bandwidth. If a post has no substantial point it will go.

ps: also, please don't quote more than necessary for the same reasons. In particular, don't regurgitate the whole QOTD just to make a point about one line in it. Thanks. :) [/mod]

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