Is it just me or has the dialogue lost something?

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I notice the Hound does not really take off on Polliver until Polliver has asked to trade a chicken for Arya.

For the 14th century milieu that's probably not much of a thing to some ignorant soldiers , but apparently Sandor has something against it, and it sets him off.

A podcast I listen too had a conversation about this point. The conclusion they made is that it the indicator or determining whether someone is a good guy or not.

Are they a rapist? If no, then = good guy. Don't worry about murdering!

[SlowLoras]

There seems to be a lot of nudity, on the other hand (mostly female), and a lot of it seems purely gratuitous. Some of it I don't mind--I kind of love the situations where the female characters deliberately use their nudity as a show of confidence and strength (like Dany with Daario in 3x08)--but so much of it seems so unnecessary. The prostitutes didn't need to be undressed when Oberyn and Ellaria were picking them out. Osha didn't need to be naked to seduce Theon (she could have made out with him or something). Margaery didn't need to be naked to try to seduce Renly. And so on.

The lack of equal-opportunities nudity is probably what bugs me more than the nudity itself, if I'm honest. And I'm approaching this as someone who appreciates naked ladies and men in equal amounts. I mean, prosthetic Hodor wang, nightmare fuel merchant wang and full-frontal Theon is a bit of a poor show compared to the sheer amount of boobs & bits we've seen from the ladies - hell, the number of bit-part actresses hired ostensibly to show off their ladyparts is probably relatively high.

I'm not troubled by the sex and nudity - it's not excessive when you take everything into account (although the Littlefinger brothel speech just felt clumsy as hell, imo.) If they'd just do the ladies a favour and give us some more naked man-butt, at least things would feel a little more balanced.

Re: the dialogue. I think it's hard to cram all of the subtleties and fine details of the books into an hour of TV, hence why some of the dialogue comes off as stilted - this is particularly problematic with the more introverted characters (Jon and Stannis are prime examples of this IMO, and a lot of Jon's S3 dialogue felt pretty stiff and awkward, partly because in the book, the majority of those scenes were explored through internal monologue - never an easy thing to convey on screen.)

The writers have a tendency to hit you in the face with exposition and worldbuilding - 'as you know, Bob' type dialogue, rather than play the long game and ease details into the dialogue. Whether this is a failing on the part of the writers, or whether the writers are working towards a TV audience which, largely, has little patience for the long game, I don't know.

[boojam]

The writers have a tendency to hit you in the face with exposition and worldbuilding - 'as you know, Bob' type dialogue, rather than play the long game and ease details into the dialogue. Whether this is a failing on the part of the writers, or whether the writers are working towards a TV audience which, largely, has little patience for the long game, I don't know.

Can you elaborate on this more?

I find this exposition hard to follow just what point do you wish to put?

[SlowLoras]

Can you elaborate on this more?

I find this exposition hard to follow just what point do you wish to put?

Just to throw an example out there - Brienne and Cersei's exchange re: Jaime. Cersei bluntly states 'you love him', thus clueing in the viewer immediately - the alternative route would've been a lot of shipteasing and slow build, sort of a 'does she/doesn't she' dynamic. But the restraints of having ten hour-long episodes as opposed to the size of the books mean that a lot of viewers would potentially lose interest, or the slow build would get lost beneath the myriad other plot threads occurring at the same time.

TV audiences are complex, I think, especially with a show like GoT which carries with it a dedicated fanbase who are very knowledgeable about the world, its mythology and the characters who inhabit it. You have to please those fans, but also the more casual fans, who turn up for a story as opposed to an hour of complex dialogue hinting at certain outcomes, with the payoff a long way off.

[iknownothingjonsnow]

Just to throw an example out there - Brienne and Cersei's exchange re: Jaime. Cersei bluntly states 'you love him', thus clueing in the viewer immediately - the alternative route would've been a lot of shipteasing and slow build, sort of a 'does she/doesn't she' dynamic. But the restraints of having ten hour-long episodes as opposed to the size of the books mean that a lot of viewers would potentially lose interest, or the slow build would get lost beneath the myriad other plot threads occurring at the same time.

TV audiences are complex, I think, especially with a show like GoT which carries with it a dedicated fanbase who are very knowledgeable about the world, its mythology and the characters who inhabit it. You have to please those fans, but also the more casual fans, who turn up for a story as opposed to an hour of complex dialogue hinting at certain outcomes, with the payoff a long way off.

"They're dragons, Khaleesi. They can never be tamed, not even by their mother."

Thank you, Sherlock. I didn't pick up on that 5 seconds ago with Drogon almost bit her head off...

[boojam]

Just to throw an example out there - Brienne and Cersei's exchange re: Jaime. Cersei bluntly states 'you love him', thus clueing in the viewer immediately - the alternative route would've been a lot of shipteasing and slow build, sort of a 'does she/doesn't she' dynamic. But the restraints of having ten hour-long episodes as opposed to the size of the books mean that a lot of viewers would potentially lose interest, or the slow build would get lost beneath the myriad other plot threads occurring at the same time.

TV audiences are complex, I think, especially with a show like GoT which carries with it a dedicated fanbase who are very knowledgeable about the world, its mythology and the characters who inhabit it. You have to please those fans, but also the more casual fans, who turn up for a story as opposed to an hour of complex dialogue hinting at certain outcomes, with the payoff a long way off.

Ah yes the Brienne and Cersei exchange.

Our esteemed forum top moderators noted that in their "The Lion and the Rose Guide".

Oberyn - Cersei dialog was even more awkward.

Did George write that or what?

Some dialog does do a belly flop at times, but to my ear, I don't hear very much " exposition and worldbuilding ", that is apparently a value judgment most critics and the experienced actors don't find.

Dave and Dan (and Bryan too) seem to have a fine ear for sophisticated and , at times, humorous dialog...

So methinks that the title of this thread is a minority opinion not held by the shows majority of viewers.

[SlowLoras]

Some dialog does do a belly flop at times, but to my ear, I don't hear very much " exposition and worldbuilding ", that is apparently a value judgment most critics and the experienced actors don't find.

Dave and Dan (and Bryan too) seem to have a fine ear for sophisticated and , at times, humorous dialog...

So methinks that the title of this thread is a minority opinion not held by the shows majority of viewers.

For what it's worth, I generally like the dialogue. I watch the show with my husband, who's never read the books, and (excluding things the show leaves out) his understanding of the world & story is not far off my own, so the show's obviously doing something right, whether a person is a fan of the style or not.

There's definitely a tendency to throw nuggets of information into dialogue, and sometimes this comes off a little lumpen - one example which springs immediately to mind is Jon & Sam's "Why's my surname Snow?" exchange. But again, it's a matter of perspective. I'm sure many viewers aren't bothered by the things which bother me - and vice-versa (I know 'what the fuck's a Lommy?' makes little sense but I laughed anyway.)

With regards to the thread title...I don't think the dialogue is any better or worse than it has been. You have to take it on a scene-by-scene basis. Some of the worst writing, imo, can be attributed to writing complex and/or introverted characters - very hard to successfully convey their feelings through dialogue when they tend to express themselves internally in the books.

[Bastard of Balmora]

Sansa saying "It's the only place where no one talks to me." stuck out for me as being particularly bad. They could have written it in a more elegant fashion.

[Snows Queen]

My biggest complaint is the way the show is depicting the Jaime and Cersei. I feel it a great disservice to the character of Jaime in the books. Other than that storyline I can enjoy the show and the changes it makes, keeps me guessing. I do not like to try to guess where they are trying to take Jaime,s character.