lord summers Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Why are they always shown as a lion and a stag? Shouldnt it just be a stag seeing as the Lannisters want everyone to think that the children are Roberts? Or does it have something to do with the fact that 2 great houses married? If that is the case then shouldnt the Stark kids have a direwolf and fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The Lannisters are mad, Cersei is mad, and Joffrey is the maddest of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Don't they also say "Joffrey of House Baratheon and House Lannister" at his wedding? Or is that something they do at every wedding? And what sigil would Joffrey's kids have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Because Cersei (and Joffrey) made it so and Robert ate the insult, which it was. Jon Snow comments on it as early as Joffrey arriving in Winterfell. No one ever claimed Cersei or Joffrey to be smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Joffrey is presented of being of both Houses Baratheon and Lannister. He insists on this dual lineage. It is a way for the Lannisters to display their power and influence. It's propaganda, like most things political. The irony is he is not really a Baratheon, and emphasizing his Lannister heritage instead of doing the most to present himself as purely Baratheon is a mistake. By putting up Joffrey as a Lannister, the Lannisters are actually weakening their claim to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 The woman is important too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 But still dismissed the idea of a direwolf with a fish in it's mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 But still dismissed the idea of a direwolf with a fish in it's mouth. There are better ways to quarter arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Big Walder and Little Walder quarter the sigil of House Frey with the sigils of their maternal houses. And I wouldn't be surprised it other less disagreeable characters did the same. Though one could argue that for the Freys that is a necessity. Otherwise, you'd have hundreds of people going about with the exact same sigil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well all those are Houses but not the royal house... There are better ways to quarter arms. Subtext. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maester Pedant Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well all those are Houses but not the royal house... That's true. Can you imagine, say, King Maekar combining the three-headed dragon with the sun and spear? Edit: Or Robert's sigil being the crowned stag of House Baratheon riding the turtle of House Estermont? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It exists, but that the reigning house would do it was weird. I mean Robert is the first Baratheon king but did they want to remind everyone for centuries to come that the first queen was a Lannister? Also nobles who alter their sigils are often cadet branches, see Stannis' flaming stag or Garlan Tyrell's dual rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Knight Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 It exists, but that the reigning house would do it was weird. I mean Robert is the first Baratheon king but did they want to remind everyone for centuries to come that the first queen was a Lannister? Also nobles who alter their sigils are often cadet branches, see Stannis' flaming stag or Garlan Tyrell's dual rose. Probably because pre-rebellion both houses were on the same level. The new royal family is built as much on Lannister gold as it is on Baratheon arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Probably because pre-rebellion both houses were on the same level. The new royal family is built as much on Lannister gold as it is on Baratheon arms. Too bad they hadn't any space for direwolves and falcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Probably because pre-rebellion both houses were on the same level. The new royal family is built as much on Lannister gold as it is on Baratheon arms. Lannister gold had nothing to do with the formation of the new Royal House. That just came in handy when the economic crisis hit them later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aduro Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It might just be the Lannisters trying to get every claw they can into the royal family. They're ambitious, practically Targaryan wannabes and they would take any opputunity to differentiate themselves from other great houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Had Robert truly been a King and ruled properly, raised his kids properly, there would be no Lannister reference. His kids would have been raised more "Baratheon" and would identify with that part of the family and be more proud of it. But since Bob was a lazy drunk unfit King, Cersei who is a strong woman, was able to be more of an influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Santa of House Claus Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It should just be the Royal Stag, but as the Lannisters are super arrogant and think they are are better then everyone they are going to put their sigil next to the royal one. Plus with the one Barratheon in their lives, their "father," dead, there is nothing stopping them from elevating themselves. Also, I do not think there is anything wrong or illegal with doing that, other houses merge sigils when they marry, I believe they talk about it a little in passing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I have a feeling that Robert KNEW (or suspected) the kids were not his so taught them little and did not care that they took Lannister sigils. WHY did Robert become a drunk. What guilty secret did he have that made him not want to care? It just seems strange that he NEVER tried to be a king. I cannot believe he was not aware that he and Cersai never completed the act. He sort of was very experienced in that department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Had Robert truly been a King and ruled properly, raised his kids properly, there would be no Lannister reference. His kids would have been raised more "Baratheon" and would identify with that part of the family and be more proud of it. But since Bob was a lazy drunk unfit King, Cersei who is a strong woman, was able to be more of an influence. While I agree that Robert was the main responsible, it's worth noting that many others share the blame. The main one would be Jon Arryn, hand of the king and supposedly a wise and experienced man who should give good council. Having the heir undervaluate the royal banner and put the heritage of his mother at the same level as the king's is a terrible idea, specially in a newly founded dinasty. He should ahve warned Robert. I have a feeling that Robert KNEW (or suspected) the kids were not his so taught them little and did not care that they took Lannister sigils. I don't think so. Robert would have killed Cersei, Jaime, and the three kids if he had known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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