Words of Radiance II (Spoilers): These are not the flashbacks you're looking for

[Emo Jon Snow]

I just finished and the old thread is dead, just curious if the sword that Szeth has been given was discussed. Is the general consensus that this sword is Nighblood? The same sword Vasher used, or a sword made from the same magic on Nalthis?

[Rhom]

I just finished and the old thread is dead, just curious if the sword that Szeth has been given was discussed. Is the general consensus that this sword is Nighblood? The same sword Vasher used, or a sword made from the same magic on Nalthis?

I think most seem to think it is Nightblood. Too much similarity.

I'm still uncertain how I feel about actual artifacts from other stories popping up. I like the Cosmere concept. I like a few Easter Eggs of some world hoppers. But that just felt like too much of a direct tie. Nothing to this point has required that you read another of Brandon's books to follow along... But I would say now that reading Warbreaker before Stones Unhallowed would be pretty important if not necessary.

[Ded As Ned]

Ya know, I had planned to read Warbreaker at some point, but now I feel the urge to be stubborn and refuse, just out of principle.

[Night's_King]

Ya know, I had planned to read Warbreaker at some point, but now I feel the urge to be stubborn and refuse, just out of principle.

Yeah, I feel the same. Easter Eggs are one thing, reading work outside a cycle to understand the cycle is another.

[Werthead]

The Cosmere setting is really just one cycle, though. Sanderson constructed it the way he has because it allowed him to send different books to publishers without it being clear they were part of a series (for example, I believe he sent The Liar of Partinel, White Sand, an early version of The Way of Kings and Elantris to Tor, and Elantris was the one they bought) to increase the chances of them selling. It also makes it easier to break down and sell the books if you're talking about a trilogy here and a seven-book series there than suggesting people read a single 40+ volume story.

Going forwards, it appears that the books and worlds will be more closely aligned with one another. In fact, the Hoid book/trilogy and the Mistborn III trilogy will actually encompass different worlds within the same work.

It sounds like

Mistborn III will have sequences set on Scadrial and several of the other worlds from the books, which are now linked by FTL travel as well as the Shadesmar

Or in short, if this is something that's going to annoy you, it's probably only going to get worse in the future. How quickly and to what extent that happens remains to be seen; it may be that we get a potted history of Nightblood in the next book that makes reading Warbreaker unnecessary.

[Ded As Ned]

I don't mind if they are aligned, but I feel like each series should stand on it's own without needing to read others to know what is going on. I actually think this is what Brandon is doing, and the black-talking-sword will be explained in-story. It's fine if you can read the other Cosmere books to enrich the story/world/setting, but if it's necessary I really feel that should be advertised ahead of time.

If I had known back in junior high that I wouldn't get to finish WoT for another 20 years (and 11 more books), I doubt I would have picked it up. Even in retrospect, I'm undecided on if I'm glad I stuck with it.

On-topic, I'm curious to learn if the black-talking-sword originated on Roshar or the other world (from Warbreaker).

[Solmyr]

Ya know, I had planned to read Warbreaker at some point, but now I feel the urge to be stubborn and refuse, just out of principle.

I had the exactly opposite reaction. Finished WoR, started the Chaoswar saga by Feist, caught up on the discussion on WoR in the meantime, saw some excitement over some sword, researched a bit, "Ok, I guess I need to read Warbreaker", reading Warbreaker atm (75% done), no regrets ;).

P.S. From a marketing point of view, Sanderson's style of including Easter eggs from one book into another helps him sell more of each.

[Ded As Ned]

As stated earlier, I like easter eggs. I like references to the other Cosmere books/worlds. The line for me is when it becomes almost necessary (at minimum) to read other series to be able to follow the series I am currently reading, without knowing this when I started. My comment above about not reading Warbreaker was mostly tongue-in-cheek.

[aceluby]

Just finished WoR, and while I liked it, it really suffered from terrible pacing compared to WoK. I couldn't put WoK down and absolutely loved every chapter, finishing it in 3 days. I liked Shallan in the first book, but in this one I absolutely couldn't stand her. Every chapter was boring, her backstory was flat, the powers she used weren't exciting, and her chapters just destroyed the pacing for me. Could have skipped half her chapters and not missed a beat. The only saving grace is the last 150 or so pages were fantastic, it just sucked that it took 900 pages to get there with only about 100 of those previous pages really being page turners. Big downturn in quality IMO.

But w/ that being said I'll still read the next ones and probably pick up warbreaker after I read some better SFF.

[Night's_King]

Just finished WoR, and while I liked it, it really suffered from terrible pacing compared to WoK. I couldn't put WoK down and absolutely loved every chapter, finishing it in 3 days. I liked Shallan in the first book, but in this one I absolutely couldn't stand her. Every chapter was boring, her backstory was flat, the powers she used weren't exciting, and her chapters just destroyed the pacing for me. Could have skipped half her chapters and not missed a beat. The only saving grace is the last 150 or so pages were fantastic, it just sucked that it took 900 pages to get there with only about 100 of those previous pages really being page turners. Big downturn in quality IMO.

But w/ that being said I'll still read the next ones and probably pick up warbreaker after I read some better SFF.

Hm, I found WoR a lot better paced than WoK. In WoK the whole time happened nothing and then in the last 150 pages were the two major events. In WoR we had three (IIRC) major events and they were not only at the end of the book but one in each third, I think.

[Werthead]

On-topic, I'm curious to learn if the black-talking-sword originated on Roshar or the other world (from Warbreaker).

It originated on the Warbreaker world. Apparently there is going to be a sequel, Nightblood, that will fill in the gaps on what happened to the sword and how it ended up on another planet, although apparently this will not be necessary to enjoy future Stormlight books (since Nightblood is apparently on the backburner for now, and Sanderson probably won't get to it until after Stormlight #5 or thereabouts).

[Maia]

It should be noted that apparently Nightblood and Vasher were in an early version of "The Way of Kings" _first_ and Sanderson decided to write a standalone background book about them, i.e. "Warbreaker, later. So, not quite the usual Easter egg thing. As to the whole Cosmere stuff, I can take it or leave it, but it is certainly something new and unusual, isn't it?

Just finished WoR, and while I liked it, it really suffered from terrible pacing compared to WoK. I couldn't put WoK down and absolutely loved every chapter, finishing it in 3 days. I liked Shallan in the first book, but in this one I absolutely couldn't stand her.

It was the opposite for me. Had to force myself to finish WoK and Dalinar was the only PoV character that was consistently interesting to me in it. Shallan seemed like a cookie-cutter "feisty princess" stereotype. Loved her and her storyline in WoR, as her character finally made sense. Less moping from Kaladin and greater insight into mysteries of the world helped a lot, too.

Neither book is a literary masterpiece, of course, but after WoR the series has me well and truly intrigued.

[aceluby]

Hm, I found WoR a lot better paced than WoK. In WoK the whole time happened nothing and then in the last 150 pages were the two major events. In WoR we had three (IIRC) major events and they were not only at the end of the book but one in each third, I think.

Totally opposite for me, felt that WoR only had those 3 events, all of which dealt w/ Kal who wasn't the focus of the book, with nothing happening between while WoK had something interesting happen in nearly every chapter and to every character. To each their own, but I much prefer the action in WoK w/ the bridge runs, visions, and political intrigue.

[Solmyr]

Speaking of Nightblood (the sword, not the novel), after reading Warbreaker I am considering what implications the sword's presence on Roshar might have:

This is a Warbreaker spoiler, proceed at your own risk!

From the fight against the 50 Lifeless at the end of Warbreaker we come to understand that unsheathing Nightblood causes the sword to start feeding upon the person's Breath(s), depleting them at an increasing rate each second. Presumably, once out of Breath, the wielder is then killed by NIghtblood.

As far as I know Sanderson's magic systems, they supposedly work cross-world. So there is no reason to believe that particular power of Nightblood would not work on Roshar. Therefore my question is - what happens if someone (probably Szeth) draws Nightblood? It is unlikely that any of the denizens of Roshar have more than a single Breath. So drawing Nightblood would exhaust that Breath in milliseconds, followed by the wielder's death. Seems like a rather dull dead-end, effectively making Nightblood undrawable on Roshar.

Or could it be that Vasher's comment that the sword kills the wielder once he's out of Breath has a loophole? Maybe this is Vasher's experience with the sword, but it could be that it is possible that the sword be drawn and wielded without mortal peril to its wielder under special circumstances?

[Migey]

Solmyr

I don't really know my stuff here, but as far as I'm aware, while the magic system works cross-world (I think), the 'resource' needed to use it isn't. I remember the word 'investiture' being thrown around, and I think it refers to the specific 'resourse' of the world in that sense, or whats required to use the magic. So in the world of Warbreaker, investiture (the force needed to animate objects) takes the form of breath, but in Roshar, it might very well be Stormlight instead.

That said, I don't know exactly how it works, and I could be completely wrong. But either way, I doubt Sanderson would bring Nightblood into Roshar if it couldn't be used.

[End of Disc One]

I've noticed that the people who thought TWoK was a 10/10 book, don't think WoR is quite as good. Everyone else seems to think WoR is the better book. I certainly agree.

[aceluby]

I've noticed that the people who thought TWoK was a 10/10 book, don't think WoR is quite as good. Everyone else seems to think WoR is the better book. I certainly agree.

My guess is due mostly to the characters focused on. I can't stand Shallan and her 'wit' is grinding, not funny. Hundreds of pages of puns and bad humor left a bad taste in my mouth that was only somewhat made up for w/ the ending. Between that, boring bodyguard scenes, Kal's brooding, no more visions, and the frankly stupid focus on dueling (except the 4v1, that was a cool scene) as the driver of political intrigue and it's surprising I even finished it.

Good storming thing that I can read on the bus :)

I can't wait until the Szeth book though. THAT should be an awesome book.

[Solmyr]

@Migey,

You could be correct and I've considered that. But on the other side we have the worldhoppers such as Hoid, who, if I remember my Cosmere 101 correctly, is an allomancer. I always got the impression that his allomancy works cross-world and I've also heard many discussions about hemalurgic spikes used cross-world and the underlying assumption always was that they will work, although I can't remember a specific argument as to why. I recall WoB discussing hemalurgy in particular, and he always addressed questions about cross-world (cross-magic systems hemalurgy) within the context of them working.

Regardless, if magic systems don't work cross-world, then there's a strong argument to be made that Nightblood would not feed at all instead of feeding on stormlight as a resource. Because what happens if we took Nightblood to Sel - what does he feed on there? Does he even need to feed on anything? Perhaps feeding him is not a prerequisite to using him, but a side-effect and the lack of a resource to power him would not prevent him being used (he certainly does not seem to have lost his sentience on Roshar, which implies some of the power invested in him carries through worlds).

[ziz0z]

It's been at least very strongly suggested that Vasher can survive off Stormlight instead of Breath on Roshar, so it would make sense for Nightblood to analogously feed off Stormlight.

I think we will just have to wait and see how it works exactly though.

[Night's_King]

Brandon read chapter one of Stones Unhallowed at FantasyCon!