Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He crowned himself while Viserys was still in Westeros and the Targ forces were already defeated, he did intend to crown himself over innocent people that had a stronger claim than his. He didn't crown himself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Trell Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The smarter play may have been to march on Tywin as opposed to hurrying up the road to take KL. Getting stuck between the walls of a city and a strong, disciplined force would have been dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 The smarter play may have been to march on Tywin as opposed to hurrying up the road to take KL. Getting stuck between the walls of a city and a strong, disciplined force would have been dangerous. I think taking KL quicker would helped more as then they can hole up in KL and plan their next move while Tywin is stuck. Renly was ready to give the North independence after all. He should just give back Sansa and deliver Joffrey to them in return for fealty and the pact would have been done. Also the Tyrells want their daughter on that throne, they don't give a shit about the Riverlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He didn't crown himself... Robert was already King when Stannis sailed for Dragonstone, which was when Viserys and his mother fled the island, hence Robert had crowned himself, bypassing Viserys who was first in the line of succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Robert was already King when Stannis sailed for Dragonstone, which was when Viserys and his mother fled the island, hence Robert had crowned himself, bypassing Viserys who was first in the line of succession. Robert was arriving at King's Landing after the Starks and the Lannisters. He didn't crown himself, a council declared him king because of the Targaryen blood. Then everyone swore fealty to him, displacing Targaryen rule. The moment Stannis was heading to Dragonstone, Vyserys had no claim at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Robert was arriving at King's Landing after the Starks and the Lannisters. He didn't crown himself, a council declared him king because of the Targaryen blood. Then everyone swore fealty to him, displacing Targaryen rule. The moment Stannis was heading to Dragonstone, Vyserys had no claim at all. When the council consists of rebels, it's hardly "justified". Who's to say a council of Stormlords and Reachmen didn't declare him King? And what makes Robert's claim any more lawful? Viserys was still the heir, if was perfectly fit to rule and had no reason to be set aside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 When the council consists of rebels, it's hardly "justified". Who's to say a council of Stormlords and Reachmen didn't declare him King? And what makes Robert's claim any more lawful? Viserys was still the heir, if was perfectly fit to rule and had no reason to be set aside. They won the war, they're not rebels anymore. Because Starks and Lannisters were present. And the council probably even consisted of Varys and Pycelle among others. It's not like 3 guys just put a crown on Robert and rolled with it. The Reachmen bent the knee and Robert was a Stormlord. Vyserys was not fit to rule because his house was exiled. Seriously, I'm not even defending Robert, just pointing out the facts, still I get shit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 They won the war, they're not rebels anymore. Because Starks and Lannisters were present. And the council probably even consisted of Varys and Pycelle among others. It's not like 3 guys just put a crown on Robert and rolled with it. The Reachmen bent the knee and Robert was a Stormlord. Vyserys was not fit to rule because his house was exiled. Seriously, I'm not even defending Robert and pointing out the facts, still I get shit for it. So once Renly defeats all of his opponents, he becomes the rightful and legal King, good. He was planning on getting rid of his opponents anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Hiren Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think he would have gone back to his tent to show Catelyn his quick victory. He wouldn't intentionally kill Stannis but Stannis might retreat to Dragonstone and prepare for seize again. If he captured Stannis they could make him join the NW which would have been interesting because Stannis would have flipped out if no one in the south believed about the wights after he saw them himself. Renly would sit back and let King's Landing starve until the Lannisters made a deal and he might also have made a deal with Robb Stark. Actually it would be interesting because Tywin might have had to sacrifice Cersei in some manner... and Renly had no children to marry off to Joffrey, etc. I suppose he could find some of his wife's relatives to marry Cersei's kids to and also Shireen and Sansa. Can't have all those loose threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firiel Hiren Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He would end up an even less effective Robert bolstered by Tyrells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 So once Renly defeats all of his opponents, he becomes the rightful and legal King, good. He was planning on getting rid of his opponents anyways. If he manages it and can get everyone to bend the knee, yes he will be legally king. Just like when everyone bent the knee to Aegon. Of course he was planning to get rid of his opponents, why wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 If he manages it and can get everyone to bend the knee, yes he will be legally king. Just like when everyone bent the knee to Aegon. Of course he was planning to get rid of his opponents, why wouldn't he? So yeah, the difference between Renly and Robert was that Robert wasn't murdered halfway through his campaign, thus Renly's claim that he was doing just like Robert is justified and he would have easily became the rightful and lawful King. I don't see what's wrong here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He would end up an even less effective Robert bolstered by Tyrells. I think so too actually. Robert under the same circumstances backed by the same people would probably only reign for a year or so though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 So yeah, the difference between Renly and Robert was that Robert wasn't murdered halfway through his campaign, thus Renly's claim that he was doing just like Robert is justified and he would have easily became the rightful and lawful King. I don't see what's wrong here. He didn't do just like Robert, he has much less support, not every one will bend the knee since we have 5 different kings at that moment, and he isn't the oldest usurping another family, he's bypassing his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
averde Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Stannis dies. Renly takes Kings Landing. Cersei Tommen Joffrey Myrcella and Tyrion are killed or imprisoned. Tywin either continues the war out of spite and is eventually beaten or surrenders. Robb is offered Sansa and allowed to be "King in the North" only in name to save face, swears fealty to the Iron Throne, is basically Ned but with a cooler title. Robb and the rest of the Northern army is there to help the Nights Watch with Wildlings or Others. Aegon heads to Daenerys instead of coming straight to Westeros. Beyond that is anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Stannis dies. Renly takes Kings Landing. Cersei Tommen Joffrey Myrcella and Tyrion are killed or imprisoned. Tywin either continues the war out of spite and is eventually beaten or surrenders. Robb is offered Sansa and allowed to be "King in the North" only in name to save face, swears fealty to the Iron Throne, is basically Ned but with a cooler title. Robb and the rest of the Northern army is there to help the Nights Watch with Wildlings or Others. Aegon heads to Daenerys instead of coming straight to Westeros. Beyond that is anyone's guess. I really wonder what the Lannisters would do. Run back to the Rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He didn't do just like Robert, he has much less support, not every one will bend the knee since we have 5 different kings at that moment, and he isn't the oldest usurping another family, he's bypassing his own. He has the support of 100K men, and can easily get the Riverlanders and Northmen to get the knee. With Renly still a player, Balon most likely doesn't rebel (they were never 5 kings at once, remember), and without Stannis murdering him, he crushes Tywin with his huge ass army. Renly's plan was flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Renly's plan was flawless. Why? He had the Tyrells and Stormlords backing him. He didn't know that Balon crowned himself, he was attacking the Crownlads with the intend to dispose Lannisters, the Dornish hate his buddies the Tyrells, and he was contemplating to secede the North and possibly the Riverlands and all he knew was that a Tully was in charge of the Vale. At that point he reigns directly over only the Crownlands, the Reach and the Stormlands and only has the Rewyne fleet to deal with both the Greyjoys and Stannis core group of the Royal fleet on two different sides of the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 He would end up an even less effective Robert bolstered by Tyrells. I think this would honestly be the case. The Tyrells clearly wanted power. Olenna wanted Margaery to have power, Mace wanted Margaery to have power, and Margaery likely wanted herself to have power. Meanwhile, Renly wanted power for himself, and was confident that he could do things. I have a sneaking suspicion, that depending on how Renly acted as King, the Tyrells might have offed him when his and Margaery's potential child was a few years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 I think this would honestly be the case. The Tyrells clearly wanted power. Olenna wanted Margaery to have power, Mace wanted Margaery to have power, and Margaery likely wanted herself to have power. Meanwhile, Renly wanted power for himself, and was confident that he could do things. I have a sneaking suspicion, that depending on how Renly acted as King, the Tyrells might have offed him when his and Margaery's potential child was a few years old. This would all very likely although Loras still cares about Renly. I think though that Renly might leave them too much power, similar to what Robert did with the Lannisters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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