I have come to a conclusion on book-Dany

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

TV Dany is hella annoying. She frees slaves...hooray! She makes the most arrogant cliche annoying soundbites ever...noooo!

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

yeah i dont like dany in the books or show. but even i, while watching "breaker of chains" was like "alright. that was pretty awesome. i'll give you that one"

[Batman]

I remember Trey Parker and Matt Stone talking about Mel Gibson doing Passion of the Christ. They talked about what a great idea it was to have the movie in a dead language because no one would be able to tell how terrible it truly was when spoken in English. It just sounded foreign and cool. I am not saying that is the case with Dany because I don't really remember what exactly the words were. Just putting it out there because watching the Passion again, it was a good point.

[Petyr Patter]

if you are referring to MMD, Dany had saved her from further rape and murder; even though it was standard practice in warfare of the period. Dany blamed her, perhaps harshly by modern standards, for the death of her child and husband and that was the reason for throwing her on the pyre. The price of killing a prince is death, Dany needed a sacrifice, to help raise the dragons, and surley a magical one could only be a bonus. If MMD was going anyway, it would save an innocent from sacrifice. Her previous status as a rape victim was neither here nor there.

You haven't explained to me why Danaerys is more sympathetic, but rather why she is selfish and cruel. She had her reasons, they just aren't very sympathetic when you step back and look at things from any other perspective besides Danaerys's.

Khal Drogo and his army inflicted Holocaust levels of cruelty on Mirri and her village. What Danaerys did does not change that. Yet, Mirri none the less treats Khal Drogo's wound and gives him advice on how to heal. An incredible act of kindness and commitment to her equivalent of the Hippocratic oath. Khal Drogo ignores her advice and gets what I believe is sepsis. To be specific, Drogo removes her poultice and replaces it with one of mud (not healthy) and drinks milk of the poppy and alcohol which Mirri specifically said to avoid. When the disease is revealed, Mirri gets the blame. One of Drogo's blood riders promises to have her ganged raped before leaving her to be eaten by weasels for killing Drogo. Only Danaerys's orders stops him, and he promises to carry out his sentence once Drogo is dead and Danaerys no longer has any authority because without a khal she is no khaleesi. In essence, Mirri is as a dead as Drogo, the only question is time.

Under these situations, Danaerys asks Mirri if there is a spell, and Mirri says there is, but only death can pay for life. Danaerys asks only one question, "mine?" When told no, she orders Mirri to cast the spell. Mirri does so. And be honest, there are no good options for her at this point. Think about this, Danaerys just ordered the death of... somebody. She knows it won't be Drogo and it won't be her. It could have been some innocent 2 year old. As it was, the life taken was her own unborn child.

She does have another option, let Drogo die. Take those she can trust and whatever wealth she can get a hold of, and ride away.

Did Mirri betray Danaerys? I don't think so. She is certainly not responsible for Khal Drogo's downfall, and actively tried to prevent it. She did not tell Danaerys WHO would be the death to pay for Khal Drogo's life, but Danaerys did not ask either. Mirri even told Danaerys that "death would be cleaner." Everything bad that happens in Danaerys's last few chapters are because Khal Drogo can't stand an itchy poultice and Danaerys will go to any measure to save one of the greatest war criminals of his generation.

I am not going to say Danaerys is a villain, because clearly her crusade to end slavery is with merit, albeit with loads of unintended consequences. However, she is certainly a greyer character than I think a lot of book readers realize. One man's hero is another man's murderous destabilization agent.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I remember Trey Parker and Matt Stone talking about Mel Gibson doing Passion of the Christ. They talked about what a great idea it was to have the movie in a dead language because no one would be able to tell how terrible it truly was when spoken in English. It just sounded foreign and cool. I am not saying that is the case with Dany because I don't really remember what exactly the words were. Just putting it out there because watching the Passion again, it was a good point.

She said 'You're white saviour is here. Break your bonds and make me your queen.' Then there was overbearing inspirational music.

[WTFSalami]

Tv Dany is sucking the ratings teat and they have her on a "pedestal" where she can do nothing wrong, so yeah! she's super one dimensional on the show. Still, though... Tv Dany is cooler *dons biker shades*

Book Dany, way more character developement...

You realize we haven't gotten to the point of her story where she starts to fuck up, right?

The complaining from book readers about the show's adaptation of her story line is completely baffling to me. You KNOW what's coming, why are you complaining about her "being on a pedestal"? They have followed her story more closely than anyone else on the show, so somebody PLEASE explain to me why so many book readers have forgotten her story?

[Hiram McDrogon]

The complaining from book readers about the show's adaptation of her story line is completely baffling to me. You KNOW what's coming, why are you complaining about her "being on a pedestal"? They have followed her story more closely than anyone else on the show, so somebody PLEASE explain to me why so many book readers have forgotten her story?

You see this all the time: book readers know what the characters are like at the current point of the book series. We have our ideas of what the characters are like, based on all five books. And when show-Dany-outside-Mereen doesn't match book-Dany-inside-Mereen, we get annoyed.

Stannis is a brave hero who fought for the wall and is now off to kill the worst villains in the series, Cersei is an evil drunk, Jaime is a redeemed warrior, Dany is a very flawed ruler, and so on.

I was introduced to this phenomenon when my brother and I talked about the very first episode, back when he'd read the books and I hadn't, and he told me they were making Cersei too sympathetic, and Jaime too unlikeable. When I read the first book a few days later I wondered what on earth he was talking about. A few books later, his comments made sense to me.

Yup, it's silly and absurd and forgetful of what actually develops in the books, but it happens again and again.

[binhorde]

TV Dany is one of my most least favorite characters of anything I have ever watched. I despise the TV character. They have written the character terribly in my opinion. I do grant them it is difficult to translate to screen, internal thoughts that are seen in the books, but there are ways around this. Ways they have not utilized.

[LordStoneheart]

What 'ways' do you mean? how would you do it differently?

[The Abominable SnowOther]

You realize we haven't gotten to the point of her story where she starts to fuck up, right?

The complaining from book readers about the show's adaptation of her story line is completely baffling to me. You KNOW what's coming, why are you complaining about her "being on a pedestal"? They have followed her story more closely than anyone else on the show, so somebody PLEASE explain to me why so many book readers have forgotten her story?

HOW many times have they portrayed Dany as Jesus come again on the show?

Its gotten really stale. And it looks like its going to happen again. And please remind me when i said anything about her future storyline

As of now there isnt much to her. Except liberate everybody and be loved by the universe "on a pedestal"

[Good Guy Garlan]

What 'ways' do you mean? how would you do it differently?

Conversations between her and Barristan, Jorah, Barristan, Missandei, Barristan, Daario, Barristan (did I mention Barristan?) that shed a light on her character, her motivations, and her inner life in general instead of just discussing immediate plot-related stuff

[Florina Laufeyson]

Actually I think her "whitewashedness" is far overrated by fans on here. I know a lot of people who are show-only viewers who think she's quite monstrous.

Ive talked to a couple of people who are seeing TV Dany as kinda ehhh as well. (show only fans) My mum flip flops a bit. She likes Dany but questions her methods. A lot.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon but the actress? I actually thought she was not half bad in the first season (not great, not top ten but not bad). But the last couple of seasons have been bathroom breaks. Sometimes people forget how much a great actor means to the success of the character. The writers have not helped but if the actor is good enough they can make something out of it. One example was James Marsters. He got generic villain lines during his first few episodes of Buffy but he was so good and so compelling that he made the fans love the character. It may be harsh, but its part of it.

Hue

You got a two-dimensional actress whos trying to play a four-dimensional character. Ive come to the conclusion as to why Clarke is pretty good at action scenes but sucks everywhere else and this is the reason. She just doesnt have the chops to play Daenerys. She can play Sarah Conner or even someone like Lara Croft, but she cant play Dany without struggling really hard. The character is just too complicated at the end of the day. When Dany is giving out orders in the books, her mind and even her body language is telling a different story. She has really meaningful discussions with a couple of characters like Barristan too. One wince-worthy scene is in the season 4 premiere. Drogon hisses and snaps at her and Clarke's reaction was so wooden....

This is the reason why Harry Lloyd was so good as Viserys and why Iwan Rheon is killing it as Ramsay. Their actors know what they are doing and how to nuance. Why Tywin looks like a dynamic badass (cuz i think Charles Dance never read the books). Sure, Dany could be played worse, but she could be played so much better.

What the hell is wrong with TV Sansa?' I think Sophie has nailed Sansa!

Absolutely nothing. TV Sansa is yes.

She said 'You're white saviour is here. Break your bonds and make me your queen.' Then there was overbearing inspirational music.

Inspirational? Sounded almost like the Imperial March from here.

[Cyril]

TV Dany is one of my most least favorite characters of anything I have ever watched. I despise the TV character. They have written the character terribly in my opinion. I do grant them it is difficult to translate to screen, internal thoughts that are seen in the books, but there are ways around this. Ways they have not utilized.

I agree with this. The person I watch with actually said to me during season 3, unprovoked by any of my biases, "You mean, I'm supposed to like her? I thought she was meant [to be seen] like Joffrey [after the first season]." I feel the same way.

That said, I love listening/seeing/reading Emilia Clarke interviews. She clearly loves Dany, the books, and playing her role.

[Ser Desmond Wine's Bane]

I suspect a part of the issue is they have determined Dany to be 'Badass'. All of her scenes and lines are constructed to feed into that image. Almost every interview they have given this season uses the word 'Badass'.

Compare this to Arya. While 'Badass' was used fairly often about her in the past, this season they talk about her 'feeling nothing'. There was even the video where they talk about their character's most 'badass' line, and Maisie talks about her upcoming line about 'nothing'. Book Arya 'has a hole in her heart that she tries to fill with the eyes she closes and gradually turns black from the inside out'. This is very different to 'nothing'.

Dany = badass and Arya = nothing is clearly something they have discussed at length with writers, directors and actors. To me it flattens both characters. I am not a Book Dany fan post AGoT but I honestly think I like Show Dany even less due to this flattening.

[El Guapo]

Conversations between her and Barristan, Jorah, Barristan, Missandei, Barristan, Daario, Barristan (did I mention Barristan?) that shed a light on her character, her motivations, and her inner life in general instead of just discussing immediate plot-related stuff

I suspect we are going to get a lot of these scenes once she is settled in Mereen.

[James Sucellus]

Dany hasn't been whitewashed in the same way Tyrion has. She's just been made a shallower, 2-dimensional 'badass' character, who communicates entirely in trailer lines.

[Daske]

HOW many times have they portrayed Dany as Jesus come again on the show?

Its gotten really stale. And it looks like its going to happen again. And please remind me when i said anything about her future storyline

As of now there isnt much to her. Except liberate everybody and be loved by the universe "on a pedestal"

Maybe I would have paid more attention to the Bible if Jesus had burned people alive or walled them up. Or set his dragons to attack people.

Yes, she is being depicted as a liberator, but not as Jesus.

And she is obviously being put on the pedestal ready to be knocked off (similar to the books). As others say, if you have read the books how can you not know that she is going to pay a heavy price for her past/current actions?

[Nictarion]

Ive talked to a couple of people who are seeing TV Dany as kinda ehhh as well. (show only fans) My mum flip flops a bit. She likes Dany but questions her methods. A lot.

Hue

I'm sure you dont try to influence her opinion or anything. :P

[The Abominable SnowOther]

Maybe I would have paid more attention to the Bible if Jesus had burned people alive or walled them up. Or set his dragons to attack people.

Yes, she is being depicted as a liberator, but not as Jesus.

And she is obviously being put on the pedestal ready to be knocked off (similar to the books). As others say, if you have read the books how can you not know that she is going to pay a heavy price for her past/current actions?

Okay, is "Jesus" all you got? Thats fine. "Liberator" then, whatever...

And for the second time, Im not denying any claims about future plot lines complicating things for her and i never debated them. The Op asked if the We felt that TV! Dany felt one dimensional, correct? I answered, "Yes!"

Dany being "on a pedestal" being one of the reasons she comes off this way.

[PatrickStormborn]

Lol so many haters jealous that Dany is the most popular character on the show. :lmao:

But seriously, rolling my eyes at any "white-washing" claims. She massacred an entire ruling class on the show (through treachery, no less) and wasn't even shown establishing a government (a failure in the long-term in the books, but at least she DOES something). She locked her handmaiden in a vault. She burned a rape victim alive. She intimidated an envoy with her dragons (twice).

And in the next episode, she'll crucify 163 Great Masters.

Dany is easily the most morally-dubious hero on the show. There is certainly a problem with the way the show presents characters (a lack of nuance, particularly), and I agree that it extends to Daenerys, but she is not the worst example by a long-shot. The problem most people obviously have is that she is incredibly popular with show watchers. I agree that that is a problem... but for the opposite reason to most people: it reveals a lot about the audience, that a character is more popular to watch on TV than to read about. Why is that? Why do viewers like Dany more than readers?

My biggest problem with the show's portrayal of Daenerys is the lack of subtlety and nuance, but that is mostly unavoidable (a defense I rarely give the show). When is Dany allowed to show emotion? She has hundreds of thousands of freed slaves following her. She's constantly surrounded by people who depend on her to be strong. In the books she only shows a softer side on her own or around Missandei. (Making Missandei older was evidently a HUGE mistake... I take it back, this problem most definitely could have been avoided.)

The best example of the lack of subtlety in her character is, in my opinion, her exchange with Missandei before she "purchases" the Unsullied:

"... You may be killed."

"Valar Morghulis."

"All men must die ... but not for a long while, we may pray" (book)

"Valar Morghulis."

"Yes, all men must die ... but we are not men" (show)

One is a weak attempt at badassery (and kinda stupid), and one is thoughtful and cautious, but still brave.

Ultimately Dany's character in the show is far weaker than in the books - like pretty much every character in Game of Thrones (unlike what appears to be most readers, I don't think any character has been improved upon their book counterpart). But I certainly don't think she's been white-washed (I think she seems a bit more callous in the show, actually), and I don't think the lack of subtlety in her character is any worse than the other characters - Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, Bran, Cat and Jon all suffer(ed) more than Daenerys IMO.

You realize we haven't gotten to the point of her story where she starts to fuck up, right?

The complaining from book readers about the show's adaptation of her story line is completely baffling to me. You KNOW what's coming, why are you complaining about her "being on a pedestal"? They have followed her story more closely than anyone else on the show, so somebody PLEASE explain to me why so many book readers have forgotten her story?

Actually, we've gone past the point where her biggest fuck ups take place: Astapor and Yunkai.

She leaves Astapor defenseless and unstable. She leaves Yunkai with the Wise Masters still in power. She arrives at Meereen with a trail of freed slaves who are completely dependent on her.

Those are her main failures. In Meereen she works to avoid those failures again, but fails mostly due to her actions in Astapor and Yunkai. Had she left Astapor stable with a strong military force, and had she deposed the Wise Masters and replaced them with a stable government and a strong military force, she would have been in a much stronger position in Meereen. She would have had allies against Qarth and Volantis, for example. But most importantly, she would not have been faced with an immediate siege by the Yunkai'i, which would allow her to deal effectively with the rebellious Great Masters in Meereen, rather than simply working with them.

(I agree with your general point, BTW, so I'm sorry for arguing with you haha - I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just trying to clarify a point I think is often missed by readers. But of course, in narrative terms, the revelation that she's "fucked up" can only come after she's settled in Meereen. But I still maintain that most of her failures are BEFORE Meereen; the failures she faces in Meereen are mostly just the result of what she did before.)