The Human Abstract Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Good point, but who wants to read about that? Well.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 It's not a legitimate observation. It's an opinion along the lines of 'I don't like this character so am going to criticise the author.' The advice was correct. If you don't like what GRRM has written then go and write your own book. keep it civil or go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Well.............. lol! touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The loss of her child and husband wasn't personal either? The betrayal of Jorah Mormont and Brown Ben Plumm. The attempt to poison her in Daznak's Pit, the Undying of Qarth attempting to kill her, the loss of those around her when she tries to save them (e.g. Eroeh) etc. etc...And the consequences in Slaver's Bay do effect her on a personal level too. Unlike Cersei etc. her people are her Children. To see them suffer is painful for her. To be betrayed by those close to her is painful for her. And attempted poisoning isnt a walk in the park either. Her only losses were her child and husband, but in return she got three dragons. Others are the suffering of other people, at the mean time, she got army, gold, cities to rule, now Tyrion is jioning her and I guess Dothraki and iron fleet will go over to her too,do you really have doubt who will win the battle of Meereen ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon's Bane Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 It doesn't help that Dany's enemies are portrayed as moustache twirling villains/villainessesAnd too literal at that... Skipping the fire element is a pretty strange way of reading ASOIF. You won't have a clue what's going on if you skip her chapters.Those who hate her only hate her after enduring her throughout all the books (loved #4 though^^). On re-reads she can easily be skipped. The loss of her child and husband wasn't personal either? The betrayal of Jorah Mormont and Brown Ben Plumm. The attempt to poison her in Daznak's Pit, the Undying of Qarth attempting to kill her, the loss of those around her when she tries to save them (e.g. Eroeh) etc. etc...And the consequences in Slaver's Bay do effect her on a personal level too. Unlike Cersei etc. her people are her Children. To see them suffer is painful for her. To be betrayed by those close to her is painful for her. And attempted poisoning isnt a walk in the park either.TAll that happened in AGoT, back when she was a bit likable and just a kid. Brown Ben Plumms betrayal? You compare that to the Red Wedding? The poisoning attempt was just an attempt, nothing happened, except for Belwass for whom she doesn't really care. Again: TRYING to kill, far from being able to. And not that often. It has been 4 books since she last lost something and when she did, she got rewarded with 3 dragons for commiting suicide. If it weren't for her plot armor. Fire can't kill the dragon! Neither can the lack of oxygen within a fire.Oh wait, her immunity to fire isn't even a permanent thing... she got so fucking lucky in that pyre... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Her only losses were her child and husband, but in return she got three dragons. Others are the suffering of other people, at the mean time, she got army, gold, cities to rule, now Tyrion is jioning her and I guess Dothraki and iron fleet will go over to her too,do you really have doubt who will win the battle of Meereen ?Like I said though, the ex-Slaves of Dany in Meereen are as children to her. Seeing them suffer impacts her emotionally. She also lost Jorah, who she was fond of. Doreah, her handmaiden. I see your point, but in all honesty there isnt much that she can lose, save her life. Those close to her now are Ser Barristan, Daario, Missandei. Others are close, but not on the same level (unless I missed someone). Being that two of these at least stand a good chance of dying in the Battle of Meereen, I would say Dany is set up to lose a lot in the coming novels. Bear in mind that what she can lose on a personal level she hasnt really had for very long yet.Oh, and also, there is a high probability of losing one or more of her dragons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 And too literal at that... Those who hate her only hate her after enduring her throughout all the books (loved #4 though^^). On re-reads she can easily be skipped. All that happened in AGoT, back when she was a bit likable and just a kid. Brown Ben Plumms betrayal? You compare that to the Red Wedding? The poisoning attempt was just an attempt, nothing happened, except for Belwass for whom she doesn't really care. Again: TRYING to kill, far from being able to. And not that often. It has been 4 books since she last lost something and when she did, she got rewarded with 3 dragons for commiting suicide. If it weren't for her plot armor. Fire can't kill the dragon! Neither can the lack of oxygen within a fire.Oh wait, her immunity to fire isn't even a permanent thing... she got so fucking lucky in that pyre...I wasnt comparing it to the Red Wedding no. But she doesnt lose Jorah in GoT, her "children" dont suffer in GoT, she doesnt become Public Enemy no.1 in GoT. And as I have explained in my newest post, there is nothing much she can lose on a personal level.Also, the pyre was clearly a driving point for the plot in the books. As Martin said, a one time miracle. And Dany isnt the only one with all of this plot armour; most characters are armoured in varying layers of "plot armour" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 Like I said though, the ex-Slaves of Dany in Meereen are as children to her. Seeing them suffer impacts her emotionally. She also lost Jorah, who she was fond of. Doreah, her handmaiden. I see your point, but in all honesty there isnt much that she can lose, save her life. Those close to her now are Ser Barristan, Daario, Missandei. Others are close, but not on the same level (unless I missed someone). Being that two of these at least stand a good chance of dying in the Battle of Meereen, I would say Dany is set up to lose a lot in the coming novels. Bear in mind that what she can lose on a personal level she hasnt really had for very long yet.Oh, and also, there is a high probability of losing one or more of her dragons Jaime lost his hand. Will never get it back.Cersei lost her pride, honor, glamor. Never getting it back.Robb lost life and kingdom. Never getting it back. I think that is what is meant by loss. Yes, she feels a compassion for her "children," but she also moves along without thinking twice - intact. That's where it becomes difficult in comparision to other characters, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsyao Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Like I said though, the ex-Slaves of Dany in Meereen are as children to her. Seeing them suffer impacts her emotionally. She also lost Jorah, who she was fond of. Doreah, her handmaiden. I see your point, but in all honesty there isnt much that she can lose, save her life. Those close to her now are Ser Barristan, Daario, Missandei. Others are close, but not on the same level (unless I missed someone). Being that two of these at least stand a good chance of dying in the Battle of Meereen, I would say Dany is set up to lose a lot in the coming novels. Bear in mind that what she can lose on a personal level she hasnt really had for very long yet.Oh, and also, there is a high probability of losing one or more of her dragons Robb would be sad when his bannermen too, but you just compare the fate of these two characters. I am not sure whether Danny is set up to lose a lot in the coming novels. I kind of doubt GGRM would ever allow that happenes to her, or she would receive even bigger reward for her potential personal losses, remember the last time Danny suffered personal losses, she got three dragons, without these dragons, she would be nobody and would have been dead long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starspear Posted April 22, 2014 Author Share Posted April 22, 2014 I wasnt comparing it to the Red Wedding no. But she doesnt lose Jorah in GoT, her "children" dont suffer in GoT, she doesnt become Public Enemy no.1 in GoT. And as I have explained in my newest post, there is nothing much she can lose on a personal level.Also, the pyre was clearly a driving point for the plot in the books. As Martin said, a one time miracle. And Dany isnt the only one with all of this plot armour; most characters are armoured in varying layers of "plot armour" she can yet lose a lot: - life- dragons (for good)- health and a lot more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Life is not fair. Some people suffer more than others. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon's Bane Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 As Martin said, a one time miracle. That is the very definition of plot armor. And which other character TRULY experiences plot armor? On a consistent level? With multiple stupid decisions without reprecussions? And with the driving force behind the lack of reprecussions being the love the author has for the character? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flrtwtrble Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Jaime lost his hand. Will never get it back. Cersei lost her pride, honor, glamor. Never getting it back. Robb lost life and kingdom. Never getting it back. I can see where you're going with Jaime and Robb, but Cersei? How can you compare the fact that she went insane (if she ever really was sane) and therefore lost her pride vs. losing your husband that you loved? Yes, Cersei lost a husband, but she never cared about Robert, she was in that relationship for what it brought the Lannisters. As for honor she never had it. Also, look at how Dany's childhood. Wouldn't you say that from where she was, it was easier to go up? From what I read, we get the understanding that the Starks/Lannisters/Barathon's and virtually every other house had it pretty easy between Robert's Rebellion and where GOT starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon's Bane Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 Life is not fair. Some people suffer more than others. Deal with it. That is very well put. But do we love those who don't have to suffer at all in real life? Do we care for all the rich bankers, people born rich without problems or a grasp on the troubles, people have to deal with? Do we care for the young, healthy, handsome/beautiful person, who always gets away with pulling crap? No, we despise them. The question was, why Dany is hated by many. And this is exactly why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 she can yet lose a lot: - life- dragons (for good)- health and a lot more...As I said in my post above, there is a good chance she will lose one or more of her dragons soon. Her health deteriorated in the Dothraki Sea already, and she already believes she cannot carry a child. GRRM is not going to kill her any more than he is going to kill Jon Snow.If by a lot more you mean mutilation (like Jamie losing his hand) then okay I suppose she could. But notice that those who lose body parts or recieve scars etc. are males in battle for the most part. As Dany never enters battle, it is hardly surprising her body is still in tact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 That is the very definition of plot armor. And which other character TRULY experiences plot armor? On a consistent level? With multiple stupid decisions without reprecussions? And with the driving force behind the lack of reprecussions being the love the author has for the character? Tyrion and Jon off the top of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyanna<3Rhaegar Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 The loss of her child and husband wasn't personal either? The betrayal of Jorah Mormont and Brown Ben Plumm. The attempt to poison her in Daznak's Pit, the Undying of Qarth attempting to kill her, the loss of those around her when she tries to save them (e.g. Eroeh) etc. etc...And the consequences in Slaver's Bay do effect her on a personal level too. Unlike Cersei etc. her people are her Children. To see them suffer is painful for her. To be betrayed by those close to her is painful for her. And attempted poisoning isnt a walk in the park either.TI couldn't agree more! Furthermore I'm not sure what she has done so horrible to deserve all this punishment either. Not like some of the characters on the list. (Not all) She has made poor choices (I.e. letting Mirri treat Drogo) but none of them were made to hurt or be sadistic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalibakCruel Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 I'm going to agree with the overall sentiment here. I used to like Dany, then her story just becomes boring. not just in the sense that it's been 4 books and she's just hanging around. Not just that her villains are mustache twirling. Hell, not even that she has some of the most annoying repetitive lines I've ever had the misfortune of having to read.No, the real boring in her character is that I've never once felt like she's been in any trouble. Not once have I thought "well how is she going to get out of this?". And that's unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 It doesn't help that Dany's enemies are portrayed as moustache twirling villains/villainesses I was actually shocked that they didn't wear top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 22, 2014 Share Posted April 22, 2014 That is very well put. But do we love those who don't have to suffer at all in real life? Do we care for all the rich bankers, people born rich without problems or a grasp on the troubles, people have to deal with? Do we care for the young, healthy, handsome/beautiful person, who always gets away with pulling crap? No, we despise them. The question was, why Dany is hated by many. And this is exactly why. But the notion that Daenerys doesn't suffer at all in this story is just flat out ridiculous as others have pointed out in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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