explaining the Daenerys odium

[Starspear]

Yes the currently in limbo Jon who nobody truly believes is actually dead.

As far as Tyrion or Arya goes no I never thought either one of them was truly in danger ever in the books.

The dwarf has suffered and been in life and death situations. Maybe you predicted correctly that he would get out. Arya, idem. But with Daenerys, how many of these situations can you recall? Tyrion and Arya are not unscathed. Neither is Jon. He may yet live, but his men turned against him and stabbed him. What makes it even more difficult at times is that Daenerys' behavior in any other character (i.e. Joffrey) would not so easily be swallowed by readers and in-world characters alike.

[MoIaF]

Also, look at how Dany's childhood. Wouldn't you say that from where she was, it was easier to go up? From what I read, we get the understanding that the Starks/Lannisters/Barathon's and virtually every other house had it pretty easy between Robert's Rebellion and where GOT starts.

This! Right after she was born they wanted to kill her and if it wasn't for Ser Darry they would have. Then she looses Ser Darry at a young age and has to go on the run with her emotionally, physically and sexually abusive brother. Spends the next nine odd years running and begging throughout Essos. Illyrio decides to give them shelter and six months later he brokers her marriage (sells along with Viserys) to Drogo a man twice her age. The first month of her marriage is a nightmare where she has to endure marital rape. She decides to take control of her life and makes the best of it. Her brother threatens to kill her unborn child and gets killed by her husband. Finally, finds some stability and family with Drogo and that is then take away. And the rest is history. So yeah, she started off at the bottom, there really wasn't much that could be taken away from her when she had already lost everything.

[Starspear]

That's you. But let's assume NO ONE thought they'd die at all....They're still gong through things. Dany isn't. Arya has been captured twice, lost her family while being so close. Tyrion has been disfigured, blamed for a crime he didn't commit, shunned by his father, left to a distant land, then was captured and sold into slavery, Jon has had to kill a member of the NW to infiltrate a group, he fell in love with a girl, then had to fight her and watch her die. He's hated by some for making tough decisions, and even if he is alive, he was still betrayed and stabbed by his own brothers.

Dany? Her only hardship is hearing about how a city she freed went into chaos. Yes, her ego being hurt because she didn't do something prefect is the height of her hardship. She's made plenty of mistakes and her only consequence is a bruised ego.

Ditto again. Key word: ego. That's the only thing of hers that gets bruised (post TGOT for newcomers to the thread.)

[Starspear]

This! Right after she was born they wanted to kill her and if it wasn't for Ser Darry they would have. Then she looses Ser Darry at a young age and has to go on the run with her emotionally, physically and sexually abusive brother. Spends the next nine odd years running and begging throughout Essos. Illyrio decides to give them shelter and six months later he brokers her marriage (sells along with Viserys) to Drogo a man twice her age. The first month of her marriage is a nightmare where she has to endure marital rape. She decides to take control of her life and makes the best of it. Her brother threatens to kill her unborn child and gets killed by her husband. Finally, finds some stability and family with Drogo and that is then take away. And the rest is history. So yeah, she started off at the bottom, there really wasn't much that could be taken away from her when she had already lost everything.

This! Right after she was born they wanted to kill her and if it wasn't for Ser Darry they would have. Then she looses Ser Darry at a young age and has to go on the run with her emotionally, physically and sexually abusive brother. Spends the next nine odd years running and begging throughout Essos. Illyrio decides to give them shelter and six months later he brokers her marriage (sells along with Viserys) to Drogo a man twice her age. The first month of her marriage is a nightmare where she has to endure marital rape. She decides to take control of her life and makes the best of it. Her brother threatens to kill her unborn child and gets killed by her husband. Finally, finds some stability and family with Drogo and that is then take away. And the rest is history. So yeah, she started off at the bottom, there really wasn't much that could be taken away from her when she had already lost everything.

Reading back, you'll notice that most posters started off feeling sympathy for the character in TGOT. The issues are post TGOT... which is to say 4 books so far.

A small addendum: Viserys shared some (not all) of these sufferings. Do you view both Viserys and Daenerys with equal sympathies?

[Florina Laufeyson]

If Daenerys turns into a more ruthless character who just doesn't throw her sandals at people and plant olive trees, then I will find her more interesting.

Arr.

She lost her brother & parents

She never even met them.

She lost her other brother (even tho Viserys was a twot he was still her brother)

While she didn't even lift a finger to stop it.

She lost her child

Hard I grant you that, but nothing compared to someone like Catelyn who had raised her children for years it pretty clear who suffered more.

She lost her husband

She was betrayed by her most trusted advisor

On ASOIAF standards I wouldn't even call that a true betrayal.

She will never be able to bear children...

What more do you want? Her handed over to Ramsay maybe? Lol

Ok.

Dany lost her family before she was even able to know them. But she had Viserys. Viserys abused her so thats a trial.

While she didnt lift a finger to stop Viserys' death from happening, this event has a lot of consequences building up to bite her in the ass. It seems a small thing, but the consequences are going to be huge,

Dany lost her baby. I actually dont really sympathize with her here cuz she knew the price. This is where we first see her denial and its ugly. Dany lost Drogo and she has paid for that. She must win back that khalasar somehow. While she did get three dragons out of it, note how they are now causing a lot of shit. Only Drogon in her creature...

Shes betrayed by Jorah really early on. I do think her decision to banish him was a good one. He wanted something from her that went beyond serving his queen. Im not cool with that and neither is Dany.

Never bearing children...well im not so sure she isnt able to. /shrug

Dany suffered the realization that shes a shit ruler. Its why she finally says it: Dragons plant no trees. Unfortunately, this isnt going to stop her from reclaiming the Iron Throne. Why? Because shes realized that she is a conqueror and its her way or the highway.

[KalibakCruel]

This! Right after she was born they wanted to kill her and if it wasn't for Ser Darry they would have. Then she looses Ser Darry at a young age and has to go on the run with her emotionally, physically and sexually abusive brother. Spends the next nine odd years running and begging throughout Essos. Illyrio decides to give them shelter and six months later he brokers her marriage (sells along with Viserys) to Drogo a man twice her age. The first month of her marriage is a nightmare where she has to endure marital rape. She decides to take control of her life and makes the best of it. Her brother threatens to kill her unborn child and gets killed by her husband. Finally, finds some stability and family with Drogo and that is then take away. And the rest is history. So yeah, she started off at the bottom, there really wasn't much that could be taken away from her when she had already lost everything.

Yet her childhood doesn't make up the books. And present Dany has to be interesting, not past pre book Dany.

[Stormland's Fury]

The dwarf has suffered and been in life and death situations. Maybe you predicted correctly that he would get out. Arya, idem. But with Daenerys, how many of these situations can you recall? Tyrion and Arya are not unscathed. Neither is Jon. He may yet live, but his men turned against him and stabbed him. What makes it even more difficult at times is that Daenerys' behavior in any other character (i.e. Joffrey) would not so easily be swallowed by readers and in-world characters alike.

Yeah, Tyrion could die and than the plot would pick up from another close POV and they would talk about the dead Imp. If Dany died we wouldn't hear anything from what's going on there until we get a new POV in proximity. Also nothing of consequence would happen at all then anyway.

She definitely was the safest character by far.

[Dragon's Bane]

No, not kidding.

The question was whether there were other characters armoured in plot. I said these two because not once have I been worried they would die. And everything you say Jon has lost Dany has too; the man she loved (Drogo, and she later gave up Daario for her political marriage), she is despised for trying to end slavery, lost her entire family (just because it was before she was born makes no difference; she grew up with a half mad brother, hardly the pampered upbringingbother characters had. Please, dont start the whole didnt lift a finger to save Viserys. That debate is tiresome and Off Topic, not to mention there was nothing she could have done) and was almost killed by poison in Daznak's pit, and later, in the Dothraki Sea, became extremely sick, potentially with the Pale Mare

Most have loved the rapist dearly the way she started fucking Daario. The fact that you want do slip in two guys who were the love of her life shows that you're just reaching.

Oh and she never gave up Daario, seeing as she only wants sex.

She is despised for letting her people suffer, not ending slavery, torturing, cruzifying, killing.

She lost a family she never knew. Not saying that isn't tough, but for Jon the deaths of Ned and Robb were pure mental torture.

Her upbringing was relatively pampered except for Viserys and Jon suffered in that departement as well (Cat).

But you are missing some things....

She lost Drogo because she wanted him to go pillaging and raping (because that's what Dothraki do when they plan an invasion which is what she asked of him).

She lost her unborn child because she sacrificed him in a blood magic ritual - not entirely willingly, but she so wanted it to go her way that she didn't bother to ask.

As I said, she brought all the spite upon herself by her actions. At least big parts of it.

Jon lost Ned when he was bound by oath not do anything but protecting the realm.

Jon lost Robb when he was bound by oath not do anything but protecting the realm.

Jon fell in love with Ygritte on a mission he was sent on for the protection of the realm. He fell in love - his mistake. Ygritte died because he protected the realm.

See the difference?

[MoIaF]

Reading back, you'll notice that most posters started off feeling sympathy for the character in TGOT. The issues are post TGOT... which is to say 4 books so far.

You're missing the point - she had nothing to loose post AGOT. After the events for the first book she had to build a life for herself from scratch and although for a time it looked like she everything was going relatively well everything came crashing down in ADWD.

Yet her childhood doesn't make up the books. And present Dany has to be interesting, not past pre book Dany.

Irregardless of whether they are part of the series or not those events still happened to her, her life was shit. There was nowhere to go but up from there.

[Starspear]

Arr.

Ok.

Dany lost her family before she was even able to know them. But she had Viserys. Viserys abused her so thats a trial.

While she didnt lift a finger to stop Viserys' death from happening, this event has a lot of consequences building up to bite her in the ass. It seems a small thing, but the consequences are going to be huge,

Dany lost her baby. I actually dont really sympathize with her here cuz she knew the price. This is where we first see her denial and its ugly. Dany lost Drogo and she has paid for that. She must win back that khalasar somehow. While she did get three dragons out of it, note how they are now causing a lot of shit. Only Drogon in her creature...

Shes betrayed by Jorah really early on. I do think her decision to banish him was a good one. He wanted something from her that went beyond serving his queen. Im not cool with that and neither is Dany.

Never bearing children...well im not so sure she isnt able to. /shrug

Dany suffered the realization that shes a shit ruler. Its why she finally says it: Dragons plant no trees. Unfortunately, this isnt going to stop her from reclaiming the Iron Throne. Why? Because shes realized that she is a conqueror and its her way or the highway.

You make valid points. But conquerors, as evil as they may be in some instances, are respected because of the guarantee of terrible consequences if they are crossed. Daenerys has gotten away with countless, bombastic threats... without delivering the goods of a good (character-wise) conqueror.

[Guard of the Rainking]

Arr.

Ok.

Dany lost her family before she was even able to know them. But she had Viserys. Viserys abused her so thats a trial.

While she didnt lift a finger to stop Viserys' death from happening, this event has a lot of consequences building up to bite her in the ass. It seems a small thing, but the consequences are going to be huge,

Dany lost her baby. I actually dont really sympathize with her here cuz she knew the price. This is where we first see her denial and its ugly. Dany lost Drogo and she has paid for that. She must win back that khalasar somehow. While she did get three dragons out of it, note how they are now causing a lot of shit. Only Drogon in her creature...

Shes betrayed by Jorah really early on. I do think her decision to banish him was a good one. He wanted something from her that went beyond serving his queen. Im not cool with that and neither is Dany.

Never bearing children...well im not so sure she isnt able to. /shrug

Dany suffered the realization that shes a shit ruler. Its why she finally says it: Dragons plant no trees. Unfortunately, this isnt going to stop her from reclaiming the Iron Throne. Why? Because shes realized that she is a conqueror and its her way or the highway.

I'm not saying that Dany hasn't suffered. I'm saying that she certainly hasn't suffered the most in the series.

"Dany suffered the realization that shes a shit ruler. Its why she finally says it: Dragons plant no trees. Unfortunately, this isnt going to stop her from reclaiming the Iron Throne. Why? Because shes realized that she is a conqueror and its her way or the highway"

This would probably make her more ruthless no?

[KalibakCruel]

You're missing the point - she had nothing to loose post AGOT. After the events for the first book she had to build a life for herself from scratch and although for a time it looked like she everything was going relatively well everything came crashing down in ADWD.

Irregardless of whether they are part of the series or not those events still happened to her, her life was shit. There was nowhere to go but up from there.

No, there was up then a bit down. She could've faced real consequences for her actions. She hasn't had to endure anything beyond her bruised ego.

[Nictarion]

Danny however loses nothing after AGoT(and during AGoT she was well liked) - she makes blunders and others pay for it and she escapes free.

That's because she lost everything in AGoT. She lost her brother, her child, and her husband. I don't understand the idea she hasn't suffered losses, considering the events of the 1st book.

[Tagganaro]

I don't think there's any real mystery to the "odium". Many people, including this guy, find the endless pointless adventures of Dany in Essos to be, well pointless at the least, and boring. When you add in the self-aggrandizing self-titling, the Daario mooning, the constant time-wasting appearance of parts of her story, the general crappiness of Mereen, her total seeming lack of concern over ruling Mereen, more Daario mooning, and all the harzoo, hizzoo, quiznos nonsense, you have a recipe for "odium".

I enjoyed Dany from the first couple books and portions of the third, and I will again if she gets the hell away from Essos and Mereen and embraces the dragon and roasts Daario and his stupid golden tooth and naked women sword hilts in Dragonfire, but her chapters have become the biggest slog in the series imo. And yes, that includes Aeron the boring hair and Areo the axe pedophile.

[Starspear]

Most have loved the rapist dearly the way she started fucking Daario. The fact that you want do slip in two guys who were the love of her life shows that you're just reaching.

Oh and she never gave up Daario, seeing as she only wants sex.

She is despised for letting her people suffer, not ending slavery, torturing, cruzifying, killing.

She lost a family she never knew. Not saying that isn't tough, but for Jon the deaths of Ned and Robb were pure mental torture.

Her upbringing was relatively pampered except for Viserys and Jon suffered in that departement as well (Cat).

But you are missing some things....

She lost Drogo because she wanted him to go pillaging and raping (because that's what Dothraki do when they plan an invasion which is what she asked of him).

She lost her unborn child because she sacrificed him in a blood magic ritual - not entirely willingly, but she so wanted it to go her way that she didn't bother to ask.

As I said, she brought all the spite upon herself by her actions. At least big parts of it.

Jon lost Ned when he was bound by oath not do anything but protecting the realm.

Jon lost Robb when he was bound by oath not do anything but protecting the realm.

Jon fell in love with Ygritte on a mission he was sent on for the protection of the realm. He fell in love - his mistake. Ygritte died because he protected the realm.

See the difference?

Very good points!!

[Stormland's Fury]

That's because she lost everything in AGoT. She lost her brother, her child, and her husband. I don't understand the idea she hasn't suffered losses, considering the events of the 1st book.

Which is our point. She became boring after that.

[KalibakCruel]

That's because she lost everything in AGoT. She lost her brother, her child, and her husband. I don't understand the idea she hasn't suffered losses, considering the events of the 1st book.

One book doesn't make an interesting character. She suffered in one book and that's a ticket for no more hardship throughout the rest of the series so far? She's a main POV doing a lot of things, there should be some consequence to her actions. Every other character endures throughout the series. Dany endures in one. It just doesn't make for an interesting character. And being told she suffered isn't the same thing.

[MoIaF]

No, there was up then a bit down. She could've faced real consequences for her actions. She hasn't had to endure anything beyond her bruised ego.

Being betrayed by your closest allied and friend, is nothing. Assassination attempts, nothing. Having to marry and sleep with a man you hate to keep your people safe, nothing.

[Starspear]

That's because she lost everything in AGoT. She lost her brother, her child, and her husband. I don't understand the idea she hasn't suffered losses, considering the events of the 1st book.

As per Dragon's Bane #68 - she sacrificed her own child. She didn't do didly squat to save her brother (who loved her? "Hey Sister, I don't care if the whole Dothraki army and their horses rape you"-brother). And Drogo... was her doing despite all the advice of those surrounding her.

In return as mentioned by another poster, she gets dragons. Most characters lose and lose. Nothing in return for the loss.

[KalibakCruel]

Being betrayed by your closest allied and friend, is nothing. Assassination attempts, nothing. Having to marry and sleep with a man you hate to keep your people safe, nothing.

Betrayed in book one, found out later. That's been no real palpable assassination attempts. I mean the most real attempt on her life was eaten by someone else, and she immediately leaves on her Dragon. Real suspense there.

Marrying someone you don't want to? Oh you mean like every single other character basically.