Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D - The Skye is Falling

[The Anti-Targ]

Carry on.

Interesting episode, I figured Ward would get exposed once Skye mentioned there was a geo-lock on the HDD. I'm assuming agent Mae ends up being the rescuer, but Ward gets away. Not sure whether he'll get the research data off the HDD though.

[Mexal]

I enjoyed quite a bit of last night and I agree that the lie detector scene was stupid, but they did need some way to "prove" Ward was good before revealing to Skye that he was bad. It was a clear plot device but I'm ok with it given I enjoyed the tension and Skye's "switch" to agent when they found each other.

[Heidrun]

No, Skye is not falling.

Seriously, she needs to be knocked off her pedestal. Although having "Mary Sue Putz" as her real name means that the writers are at least aware of the fans' attitude towards it. Giving herself the name Skye is both pretentious and Mary-Sue-ish. Although I think the series would be that much more hilarious if she went back to calling herself Mary Sue Putz.

Not really liking the Simmons/Fitz/Triplett love triangle, although I do like that Simmons is utterly clueless about it.

[Jon AS]

I enjoyed quite a bit of last night and I agree that the lie detector scene was stupid, but they did need some way to "prove" Ward was good before revealing to Skye that he was bad.

Not sure they needed proof, it's not like the team and SHIELD in general haven't been shown to be plenty stupid over the course of the series. Of course that also puts Koenig's stupidity in that scene in context.

I would have preferred, though, if Ward had passed simply because lie detectors are stupid machines, in particular when you're trying to use them on people trained to beat them. Could be a neat little theme for the show, really: SHIELD having a bit of an issue with having too much faith in their technology, some of which is stuff they don't even understand on a fundamental level.

[AzureOwl]

Anybody have any guesses about what agency Mama May belonged to?

[Mexal]

Not sure they needed proof, it's not like the team and SHIELD in general haven't been shown to be plenty stupid over the course of the series. Of course that also puts Koenig's stupidity in that scene in context.

I would have preferred, though, if Ward had passed simply because lie detectors are stupid machines, in particular when you're trying to use them on people trained to beat them. Could be a neat little theme for the show, really: SHIELD having a bit of an issue with having too much faith in their technology, some of which is stuff they don't even understand on a fundamental level.

I mean, yea, there is a ton of stupid over the course of the show but I know what they were going for. I do agree that I would have preferred if Ward beat it because he knew how and instead of trying to racket up stupid tension that we knew wouldn't last, he could have just played the Skye card early as a way to beat it since he knew it was true. Still, not going to fret over it.

[Leofric]

Both Hand and Koenig got killed because they didn't follow their own rules. Ward and Skye were the only two members of Coulson's team that didn't pass Hand's "join Hydra or die test" thereby joining the small group of people she trusts, yet she lets Ward join her in taking Garrett to the Fridge. Then Koenig basically ignores the machine he was just raving about how accurate it is.

I think the Romanoff shoutouts are for the non comic book readers to tie the show to the Marvel universe. She's basically the most badass SHIELD agent movie-only fans know. But they could definitely dial it back a bit.

Overall the show has improved considerably with this new direction.

[Jon AS]

I mean, yea, there is a ton of stupid over the course of the show but I know what they were going for. I do agree that I would have preferred if Ward beat it because he knew how and instead of trying to racket up stupid tension that we knew wouldn't last, he could have just played the Skye card early as a way to beat it since he knew it was true. Still, not going to fret over it.

Yes, by the standards of the show it wasn't a big deal. But Ward's injuries alone should have been enough to throw off the machine. Instead of going for the fake tension (that nobody who has ever seen a TV show before was going to fall for), they could just have Koenig postpone Ward's screening until he had recovered a bit more.

[red snow]

Yes, by the standards of the show it wasn't a big deal. But Ward's injuries alone should have been enough to throw off the machine. Instead of going for the fake tension (that nobody who has ever seen a TV show before was going to fall for), they could just have Koenig postpone Ward's screening until he had recovered a bit more.

That and the fact all the questions were designed with ambiguous answers. "I'm here or Skye" is true but it tells you nothing of intent. It's why they usually go for "yes" or "no" answers. The only fun thing about that scene was the personality test answers as there was some nice characterisation in there. As a test to see if they are loyal? Useless.

I think it's funny how the only aspects of SHIELD that has its shit together are Fury and HYDRA,

I also like how SHIELD are subservient to the NSA. Not as good an organisation as we were led to believe,

[Jon AS]

I think it's funny how the only aspects of SHIELD that has its shit together are Fury and HYDRA,

If you want something done right, learning from the Nazis isn't enough. You have to actually put them in charge.

Failing that, get Samuel L. Jackson.

[Mexal]

Yes, by the standards of the show it wasn't a big deal. But Ward's injuries alone should have been enough to throw off the machine. Instead of going for the fake tension (that nobody who has ever seen a TV show before was going to fall for), they could just have Koenig postpone Ward's screening until he had recovered a bit more.

Yea, I agree. I think that would have been the best way forward though they wanted that "I'm here for Skye and telling the truth" bit even though we already more or less had that scene with Garrett where they said that Skye was the person they didn't anticipate. Still, that's the MO of this show...beat you over the head until you're senseless with whatever they're trying to get across. They definitely believe the average intelligence of the viewer is very low, either that or their intelligence is.

[Risto]

I was conflicted last night. On one hand, as a big fan of Suffron Burrows, I wanted her to stay around, but at the same time, I was so relieved that Ward is actually not double agent. I also like the prospect of seeing Maria Hill back in series. TBH, I kinda hope that she will stay now on the show, given that Cobie Smulders is currently unemployed due to ending of HIMYM. But, we can only hope...

On a general note, this show has truly went "from zero to hero" of my liking. I mean, it is not something I usually watch and not something I like, but there was some several episodes of this show I thought for comic book adaptation (please don't kill me :)) were quite good. And plus, Fitz needs as many fans as he can get :)

[Poobah]

A nice fun episode :) Evil-Ward is significantly more enjoyable than than normal-ward. Skye's reaction when she realised Ward was a traitor and she was stuck with him, alone, and powerless was great. I was surprised when Koenig was killed off so quickly, but he definitely deserved his death for failing to execute or imprison Ward when he started failing the uber lie detector; it'd have made more sense for them to just have it be a normal lie detector and have Ward beat the machine. It was otherwise a useful and fun excuse for them to give some exposition of the various characters' backstories which I liked.

The B plot with the villain of the week pretty ehh though it did add somewhat to Coulson's backstory and showed some characterisation.

When they name-checked black widow again I wondered how many people on this board would comment on it, and laughed just out of that.

May has some major cross-country skills. I wonder who her mum works for.

No, Skye is not falling.

Seriously, she needs to be knocked off her pedestal. Although having "Mary Sue Putz" as her real name means that the writers are at least aware of the fans' attitude towards it. Giving herself the name Skye is both pretentious and Mary-Sue-ish. Although I think the series would be that much more hilarious if she went back to calling herself Mary Sue Putz.

Not really liking the Simmons/Fitz/Triplett love triangle, although I do like that Simmons is utterly clueless about it.

It was a fun joke, though it makes sense that someone who's picking their own name, especially say someone young and lonely and generally pissed off with the world because of being stuck in the system would pick something 'cool'. Though as we discussed last thread there are a lot of people just on this board who know people named Skye, presumably who were given that name by their parents.

[Mexal]

It was a fun joke, though it makes sense that someone who's picking their own name, especially say someone young and lonely and generally pissed off with the world because of being stuck in the system would pick something 'cool'. Though as we discussed last thread there are a lot of people just on this board who know people named Skye, presumably who were given that name by their parents.

I quite like the name actually.

[felice]

Then Koenig basically ignores the machine he was just raving about how accurate it is.

I didn't have a problem with that. He didn't ignore the machine, and he's not necessarily an experienced user (he wasn't expecting anyone except Coulson to turn up, so having to test people wasn't something he'd anticipated) so didn't ask the best followup questions. The machine flagged some of his answers as suspicious because he wasn't there out of loyalty to the officially disbanded SHIELD, but being there for Skye came across as an entirely honest response, and the machine most likely also noted that he genuinely had the hots for her, which would go a long way towards distracting from other possible interpretations of the answer. I'm assuming he really is seriously attracted to her, and while his duty to Hydra comes first, if Hydra had been thoroughly defeated and Garrett killed, he may well have chosen to stick with Coulson's team to be with her even without Hydra orders.

[Mexal]

I didn't have a problem with that. He didn't ignore the machine, and he's not necessarily an experienced user (he wasn't expecting anyone except Coulson to turn up, so having to test people wasn't something he'd anticipated) so didn't ask the best followup questions. The machine flagged some of his answers as suspicious because he wasn't there out of loyalty to the officially disbanded SHIELD, but being there for Skye came across as an entirely honest response, and the machine most likely also noted that he genuinely had the hots for her, which would go a long way towards distracting from other possible interpretations of the answer. I'm assuming he really is seriously attracted to her, and while his duty to Hydra comes first, if Hydra had been thoroughly defeated and Garrett killed, he may well have chosen to stick with Coulson's team to be with her even without Hydra orders.

To be fair, if the question is "Are you Hydra?" after a series of poor answers on other questions and you answer "Yes" and then very quickly, "We are all part of Hydra" to cover up the truthful response, then your follow up to that has to be "Yes or no, are you a member of Hydra?" because holy fuck was it pretty obvious that he was evading.

That being said, it was a plot device as we mentioned so I give a lot of leeway but Kroenig was a pretty terrible interrogator.

[red snow]

I didn't have a problem with that. He didn't ignore the machine, and he's not necessarily an experienced user (he wasn't expecting anyone except Coulson to turn up, so having to test people wasn't something he'd anticipated) so didn't ask the best followup questions. The machine flagged some of his answers as suspicious because he wasn't there out of loyalty to the officially disbanded SHIELD, but being there for Skye came across as an entirely honest response, and the machine most likely also noted that he genuinely had the hots for her, which would go a long way towards distracting from other possible interpretations of the answer. I'm assuming he really is seriously attracted to her, and while his duty to Hydra comes first, if Hydra had been thoroughly defeated and Garrett killed, he may well have chosen to stick with Coulson's team to be with her even without Hydra orders.

Why would you put an incompentent agent in your top secret base? I guess the blame ultimately falls on Fury's shoulders. Why give an agent a top of the range lie detector without instructing them on how to use it? It's nonsense. Luckily the show is nonsense so I can just roll with it but I'm not going to make excuses for the characters being inept. Like you say it's there as a plot device for characterization and in that sense it worked.

I know people like playing Patton Oswalt for laughs but his use in "justified" was far more entertaining.

[Mexal]

Why would you put an incompentent agent in your top secret base? I guess the blame ultimately falls on Fury's shoulders. Why give an agent a top of the range lie detector without instructing them on how to use it? It's nonsense. Luckily the show is nonsense so I can just roll with it but I'm not going to make excuses for the characters being inept. Like you say it's there as a plot device for characterization and in that sense it worked.

I know people like playing Patton Oswalt for laughs but his use in "justified" was far more entertaining.

Oh man, there should have been a crossover. Instead of Eric Kroenig, we get Constable Bob!

[denstorebog]

This was the 19th episode, and they're still referencing Black Widow, Captain America and Hulk in the span of 40 minutes. What.

Decent episode. Maria Hill presumably works for Stark Enterprises now, so looking her up will move May into that territory. Interesting - and maybe in time to connect with Avengers 2 down the line?

[Fiddler]

I liked the episode well enough.

The way each member of the team answered the "box" question was quite funny.

I was a bit suprised by Skye though. I thought for sure the writers would string her along for a few more episodes. Then, once she found out, I thought for sure she would just denounce Ward and expect it to work out. The fact that she actually played it intelligently and played along with Ward really suprised me.

I will agree though that I was disapointed that there wasn't even one little ghostbuster reference. It would have been perfect.