GRRM officially confirms Joffrey assassin?

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

The same app that 'confirms' that Sandor is dead?

The app is bound to the limitations of 'current canon'. A bit like the appendix. Grrm is not going to give away future twists on the app. And so the app is completely unreliable as a source of confirming outcomes of mysteries in the books. That's not what it should be used for, and there are many examples of this throughout. The Sandor example is just one of them. Jon Snow and Ashara Dayne are also listed as dead, Mel's 'origin' is Asshai even though she remembers her days before she went there.

I really think we ought to stop using the app for this, and keep in mind the position Ran and Grrm were in when they were writing it, wrt mysteries that still might have a twist.

"In the books and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal" - Grrm on the PW

I couldn't agree more. All the app does is synthesize information from the current primary canon. A twist of the magnitude of who exactly put the poison in the chalice, for instance, would never be revealed in the app.

As GRRM says, the careful reader might reach the conclusion that Lady Olenna was the poisoner, as the careful readers who wrote the app did. That certainly doesn't rule out the possibility that a more careful reading or a future revelation by GRRM as he hints at in the interview could lead to a different conclusion.

[mindchap]

The same app that 'confirms' that Sandor is dead?

The app is bound to the limitations of 'current canon'. A bit like the appendix. Grrm is not going to give away future twists on the app. And so the app is completely unreliable as a source of confirming outcomes of mysteries in the books. That's not what it should be used for, and there are many examples of this throughout. The Sandor example is just one of them. Jon Snow and Ashara Dayne are also listed as dead, Mel's 'origin' is Asshai even though she remembers her days before she went there.

I really think we ought to stop using the app for this, and keep in mind the position Ran and Grrm were in when they were writing it, wrt mysteries that still might have a twist.

"In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal" - Grrm on the PW

I'm not sure which app you have seen but mine doesn't say anything about Sandor or Jon being dead, nor does it state that Ashara is dead. And if that last line is a true indicator then absolutely nothing can have been confirmed. Mine says Jon is stabbed repeatedly and that Sandor is recovering on the Quiet Isle, which app says they're dead?

[yolkboy]

I'm not sure which app you have seen but mine doesn't say anything about Sandor or Jon being dead, nor does it state that Ashara is dead. And if that last line is a true indicator then absolutely nothing can have been confirmed. Mine says Jon is stabbed repeatedly and that Sandor is recovering on the Quiet Isle, which app says they're dead?

Jon Snow entry... "Place of death : Castle Black"

Sandor Clegane entry... "Place of death : Riverlands"

Ashara Dayne entry... "Place of death : Starfall"

I have the latest update (offical woiaf app)

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I'm not sure which app you have seen but mine doesn't say anything about Sandor or Jon being dead, nor does it state that Ashara is dead. And if that last line is a true indicator then absolutely nothing can have been confirmed. Mine says Jon is stabbed repeatedly and that Sandor is recovering on the Quiet Isle, which app says they're dead?

My app says:

"Jon Snow Place of death: Castle Black"

It does specify repeated stabbing, as the text does.

"Sandor Clegane Place of death: Riverlands"

Mine says nothing about Sandor recovering at Quiet Isle, as that hasn't been confirmed in text afaik.

:ninja: by yolkboy ;)

[mindchap]

Jon Snow entry... "Place of death : Castle Black"

Sandor Clegane entry... "Place of death : Riverlands"

Ashara Dayne entry... "Place of death : Starfall"

I have the latest update (offical woiaf app)

Sorry, I was going by the actual articles.

*It also notes a place of death for Aegon as KL

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

Sorry, I was going by the actual articles.

*It also notes a place of death for Aegon as KL

Well those headers are part of the entries aren't they?

Isn't the point that the app cannot be used to unequivocally confirm anything? It's simply regurgitating what the text says. So (to stay on topic) if something has yet to be revealed about the PW plot, the app certainly isn't going to be the last word.

[mindchap]

Well those headers are part of the entries aren't they?

Isn't the point that the app cannot be used to unequivocally confirm anything? It's simply regurgitating what the text says. So (to stay on topic) if something has yet to be revealed about the PW plot, the app certainly isn't going to be the last word.

Technically nothing can be used to confirm anything unequivocally until all of the books are out, so you're right, I simply meant that from the info we have, up to this point, that's what's confirmed. I didn't mean it in the sense that it's chiseled in stone and has to stay that way. Sorry for the confusion. :)

[Carey Snow]

Yes so far it looks like Olenna tried to pin the murder on Sansa. Does that make you dislike her character in any way?

Only if it was decided to be poison. Luckily for Sansa (wow, what luck) Little Finger had his own plot to get her out of there.

[Cazzy]

Can some one explain to me how little finger and olenna trust each other enough to do something like this? Do they even know each other that well, are they old friends or something? Knowing little finger he could have just exposed that olenna wanted to conspire with him to kill joffery. If he like chaos so much holy shit would that cause some serious chaos. He would need proof but that shouldn't be that hard for someone like him to figure out.

[Carey Snow]

Can some one explain to me how little finger and olenna trust each other enough to do something like this? Do they even know each other that well, are they old friends or something? Knowing little finger he could have just exposed that olenna wanted to conspire with him to kill joffery. If he like chaos so much holy shit would that cause some serious chaos. He would need proof but that shouldn't be that hard for someone like him to figure out.

Littlefinger brought in the Tyrells to marry Joff after Renly died. Littlefinger and the Tyrells seem to have a history in my opinion.

Didn't Littlefinger try to get Ned to back Renly (who the Tyrell's allied with)?

[Starks Among Us]

So nobody has said anything about this yet, but at the end of GRRM's quote he is talking about redemption, and did Olenna need redemption that poisoning Joff would have brought essentially. What I gather from that is GRRM is telling us that the poisoner is one who is seeking redemption of some sort. Not revenge, not betterment for the realm, but redemption. Is there anyone present at the wedding who is on a redemption arc? In the show I know Jamie is (and he doesn't seem too terribly sad that Joff dies) but in the books I don't remember if Jamie is back yet.

Are there any other characters that could fall into the redemption category that are in the wedding party?

[Edmure's Floppy Fish]

L

[chrisdaw]

Can some one explain to me how little finger and olenna trust each other enough to do something like this? Do they even know each other that well, are they old friends or something? Knowing little finger he could have just exposed that olenna wanted to conspire with him to kill joffery. If he like chaos so much holy shit would that cause some serious chaos. He would need proof but that shouldn't be that hard for someone like him to figure out.

That's a good point. LF has reason to trust Olenna, he's made an assessment and concluded protecting her family is her highest priority, and so he could trust her as she needs the plan to come to fruition to keep Marge (and Loras) safe.

Why would Olenna would trust LF tho? What has he told her he has riding on this? It can't have been anything to do with Sansa given she's the fall girl in case one is needed. Did he convince her he's just a just a good guy doing a good deed or something?

[The Abominable SnowOther]

First rule of fight club:

DON'T believe anything Martin EVER says

[PureGold]

But GRRM say's that he constantly changes his mind about where the story will go, and considering all he has left to write in just 2 books, I don't see him revisiting this particular plot point. I think he may have some other ideas about how it could have gone but I don't see him putting that into action.

I think Olenna did it and I believe she did have the intention of Sansa being executed for the crime. I don't think for one moment she thought Sansa would be allowed to live and I don't think Tywin would have helped Sansa either. He knew the Tyrell's had an interest in acquiring Sansa and he said he will not have "The Wolf and The Rose in bed together", I think he would have had Sansa convicted and executed to prevent the Tyrells from realizing their ambitions with her.

[LooseRoose11095]

What I noticed is that he didn't say directly it was Olenna, but just said that's the conclusion that the close reader reaches. So maybe LF just tried to shift the blame on Olenna and the Tyrells when they aren't responsible?

:bang:

Goddammit George I'm so confused!!!!!!!!

[Value Dollaeris]

It still isn't clear that the poison was in the chalice or that the king was the target. As I read that chapter, Joffrey started choking after he started eating Tyrion's pie. If the chalice was poisoned then Margaery would have put at risk.

I suspect that the Queen of the Thorns decided to prick Tyrion so she could pluck Sansa for Willas.

I'm sure someone has already suggested this somewhere on this forum but I haven't read all 100, 000 pages of what has been posted in the past . . .

[Suzanna Stormborn]

The same app that 'confirms' that Sandor is dead?

The app is bound to the limitations of 'current canon'. A bit like the appendix. Grrm is not going to give away future twists on the app. And so the app is completely unreliable as a source of confirming outcomes of mysteries in the books. That's not what it should be used for, and there are many examples of this throughout. The Sandor example is just one of them. Jon Snow and Ashara Dayne are also listed as dead, Mel's 'origin' is Asshai even though she remembers her days before she went there.

I really think we ought to stop using the app for this, and keep in mind the position Ran and Grrm were in when they were writing it, wrt mysteries that still might have a twist.

"In the books – and I make no promises, because I have two more books to write, and I may have more surprises to reveal" - Grrm on the PW

the app scoots around things that are unknown. The way it words sentences leaves a ton of stuff undecided and open for interpretation. For Sandor it says;

'But Arya leaves him to die alone in the woods instead.

The elder brother of the quiet ilse--the head of the septry--finds Clegane and ministers to him. The Elder brother later reports to Brienne of Tarth that the hound is no more and that he left his helm to mark the place of his passing.'

So it doesnt say for sure if he is dead or not, it just informs us what the elder brother told Brienne. But is by no means a certain fact.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

Wasn't this already confirmed in the official app?

[yolkboy]

Wasn't this already confirmed in the official app?

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/108270-grrm-officially-confirms-joffrey-assassin/?p=5696193