What if Joffrey was raised by someone else

[Drake Heath]

Tommen and Myrcella turned out alright so if Cersei just ignored him he'd would've ended up better, maybe not great, but better.

[Kaguya]

It would depend on if he is just a product of a dysfunctional childhood, he had no positive male role model & definite momma issues, however Tommen & Myrcella are doing pretty well so he probably is a sociopath.

If he was, no amount of alternative parenting or intervention would have helped. Sociopaths are usually extremely clever & actually learn from therapy - there is no cure. They seem to have no emotions apart from a sense of being superior to others. Having said that - not all sociopaths are serial killers, Psychologists believe that without them we may never have evolved past the hunter gatherer stage in human history & they are a necessary part of our cultural & societal development.

To see a difference compare him to say Cersei - her behaviour is cruel & calculating & probably also a result of a lack of love as a child. However it is clearly shown she loves her children & Jamie. Joffrey did not exhibit any redeeming qualities in any chapters that I read.

Psychopathy is also triggered by environment too, there are plenty of normally functioning Psychopaths in everyday society that don't commit murder, Joffrey probably could have been like this had he been raised by someone like Ned.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

His upbringing (namely Cersei's enabling and Robert's apathy) didn't help, but doing what he did to the cat implies, at least to me, some pretty serious inherent psychological problems that can't necessarily be blamed on upbringing. So while he was allowed to get as bad as he did due to his upbringing, I think he was always "not right."

[MasterJack]

His upbringing (namely Cersei's enabling and Robert's apathy) didn't help, but doing what he did to the cat implies, at least to me, some pretty serious inherent psychological problems that can't necessarily be blamed on upbringing. So while he was allowed to get as bad as he did due to his upbringing, I think he was always "not right."

This, but inherent psychological problems can be controled to a certain extent with a good upbringing and a good environment.

Very few sociopath turn out to be serial killer or woman abuser. With the right upbringing, being sociopath can turn out to be a very usefull gift.

[The Mother of The Others]

he's like one of the newer generation of Kennedy kids. you know, the ones who are doing the same kind of stuff and having it swept under the rug. Why? party parents + it's in the kids' blood. (corrupt nature & corrupt nurture combining to turn out crap kids).

Theon is our resident study of nature vs. nurture. He was from the Do Not Sow side of the tracks but raised alongside Arya in the We Do Not Sew camp of morally upright folks who sometimes throw food. Ned had him on the straight and narrow, but remove Ned and it didn't take much to nudge Theon's nature down a diametrically opposite path, and now he hates himself.

If Ned had raised Joff, we'd probably see him sneaking off to butcher cats behind the woodshed. But it'd be limited outbreaks of cruelty so long as he stayed on the Stark respirator and breathed in the North's pure oxygen of decency and respecting each other based on how you both deserve to exist. But as soon as events ripped those breathing tubes out of Joff and scratched beneath the surface to his true nature, look out.

[Heidrun]

Any place where he could have had some discipline, structure and nuturing, he would have turned out better. In fact, it probably would have been beneficial for Joff to be raised by Stannis. Stannis isn't cuddly, but he has a moral compass, self-discipline and since his own child is female, the two of them could have had some real male bonding. Plus, Stannis is his "uncle" by marriage if not by birth. Besides, joining Stannis' navy in putting down pirates and smugglers could have been a good outlet for his killing urges.

[Kaguya]

With the right upbringing, being sociopath can turn out to be a very usefull gift.

Haha that sounds scary but you're right

[Hodor the Articulate]

He would have been the same cruel bastard, but he would have hidden it better.

[averde]

Nothing changes. He has all the classic psychopath signs in his history (killed and skinned animals and pets, its hinted at that he abused his siblings) you can raise someone like that in the best family/home in the world and they will still turn out a sadistic bastard. Lots of examples of real world serial killers like this.

[Lady Woodland]

Someone posted a thread yesterday (apologies to the poster I cant recall their name off hand) however they were asking for feedback on whether Sansa was a psychopath due to her calm reaction to the death of Ser Hugh of the Vale during the Hand's Tourney, long thread & interesting reading however Sansa pretty much drew a blank on the Hare Psychopathy Checklist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

Lets see Joffrey's score

• glib and superficial charm,
  
• grandiosity
  
• need for stimulation
  
• pathological lying
  
• cunning and manipulating,
  
• lack of remorse
  
• callousness
  
• poor behavioural controls
  
• impulsiveness
  
• irresponsibility
  
• denial
  
• parasitic lifestyle
  
• sexual promiscuity
  
• early behaviour problems
  
• lack of realistic long-term goals
  
• failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  
• many short-term marital relationships
  
• juvenile delinquency
  
• revocation of conditional release
  
• criminal versatility
  

The black are all ticked, the red are only because he didn't live long enough.

16 out of 20 I would say yes. It would be interesting to apply this test to LittleFinger & Varys Characters & a few others actually.

[Green Hand of Gardener]

Jon Arryn maybe should've taken more interest in Joffrey's raising.

[MagnaStulta]

His behavior is a distorted attempt by him to simulate those around him; as a result he has all the worst traits from Cersei, Robert, and even Jaime.

I think that shows being raised by someone else away from his parents would have helped a great deal.

[ChaosImprisonateMe]

I always thought there was a hint between inbreeding an madness. If he was still a product of incest I think the literature would have made him mad still.

[Kaguya]

Bump

[Faydra]

With the right upbringing, being sociopath can turn out to be a very usefull gift.

This has my approval.

To the OP: I believe that both of his parents messed up his upbringing; Cersei through action and Robert through inaction. Letting someone else foster him could have been a great idea.

[Mourneblade]

Nurture vs Nature. Joff suffers from slight brain deformity inducing madness that can come from incest, he would also be a touched person in this regard. A better parent would only have taught him that he needed to hide this part of his personality to the world, but at his core he would be nothing but a monster.

He actually might have been far more dangerous had Ned or Jon raised him.

[Bael Abel]

Ned and Robert were both raised by Jon Arryn, and they ended up totally different. Joffrey being fostered by Tywin would be interesting. On one hand, Tywin could have controlled him, and tried to teach him to hide his nature, but seeing at how Cercei is, and was (Melara murder?), I don't think Joffrey would have ended up much different. He might have lived longer, but he would still be an evil little bastard.

[Batbob45]

What if Stannis foster Joffrey? He might teach Joffrey to use his cruelty on evil people. He could make Joffrey into a Westeros' version of Dexter Morgan.

[Mourneblade]

What if Stannis foster Joffrey? He might teach Joffrey to use his cruelty on evil people. He could make Joffrey into a Westeros' version of Dexter Morgan.

Stannis would have executed him the minute Robert died lol.

[Kaguya]

Nurture vs Nature. Joff suffers from slight brain deformity inducing madness that can come from incest, he would also be a touched person in this regard. A better parent would only have taught him that he needed to hide this part of his personality to the world, but at his core he would be nothing but a monster.

He actually might have been far more dangerous had Ned or Jon raised him.

I use think Joff was crazy due to incest but now I'm not convinced as it usually takes successive generations for stuff like that to start happening. He might have had a psychopathic gene which came from his mother...But this doesn't mean he was already destined to be evil, because as stated already not all psychopaths go down the bad route, Cersei ultimately bought it out of him.