Mourneblade Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I use think Joff was crazy due to incest but now I'm not convinced as it usually takes successive generations for stuff like that to start happening. He might have had a psychopathic gene which came from his mother...But this doesn't mean he was already destined to be evil, because as stated already not all psychopaths go down the bad route, Cersei ultimately bought it out of him. Nothing Cersei or Robert did in paranting caused Joff to dissect a cat for fun. That is pure Nature. Also Cersei and Jamie are products of distant incest, as well, as their mother and father were cousins. That is narrowing the gene pool a bit too much, just as the Targaryens have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
random girl from westeros Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Joffrey would ended up like Dexter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 we might of, but I doubt he would execute Tommen and Myrcella if those two befriended Shireen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 Nothing Cersei or Robert did in paranting caused Joff to dissect a cat for fun. That is pure Nature. Also Cersei and Jamie are products of distant incest, as well, as their mother and father were cousins. That is narrowing the gene pool a bit too much, just as the Targaryens have. Actually Joffrey didn't dissect the cat for fun, he did it to impress Robert. I am aware, but Jaime isn't a psychopath while Cersei without a doubt is, which could have been passed into Joffrey, rather than it being from incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Broke Howard Hughes Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 He'd have been your average everyday run of the mill psycho instead of a king psycho. Not to mention someone would have killed him almost immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 N vs. n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthBolton Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Not to put too much on real world psychology, but sociopathy may well have a genetic aspect to it, and early animal cruelty is a common red flag. Maybe Cersei will reminisce about him wetting the bed and getting off on fire like she does.I think he might have been tempered but we could say the same about his mother if she'd been raised by somebody else, although she has at least some degree of empathy, albeit very very minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A psychopath remains a psychopath . Neither Tommen or Myrcella has none of Joffrey madness all three was raised by Cercei. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meraxes14 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think the incident with the pregnant cat was used to represent that he is indeed a psychopath. Psychopathic children are generally identified by a particular cruelty to animals, which shows their range of emotions when presented with something somewhat 'expendable' and below them. The bad parenting wouldn't have helped, but they personality traits were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Lets say that after the cat incident, Robert becomes frightened and sends his son off to Ned or Tywin, how much different would have the boy ended up as opposed to being raised by Cersei? He would have been a sociopath. You don't stop being a sociopath. Who raised him didn't cause him to be one (though it couldn't have helped), and it couldn't have stopped him being one. Who we are is built in rather early. Theon came to Ned quite young (10 or 11 I think) and even after half his life raised well by good people, was revealed in his first POV chapters to be basically a monster. Unlike Theon, Joff was an actual monster - a sociopath. So I don't think there'd have been any change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Actually Joffrey didn't dissect the cat for fun, he did it to impress Robert. I am aware, but Jaime isn't a psychopath while Cersei without a doubt is, which could have been passed into Joffrey, rather than it being from incest. Jaime may well be a psychopath. In fact, Jaime checks off more of the boxes for psychopathy than he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlliYoyo Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Jaime may well be a psychopath. In fact, Jaime checks off more of the boxes for psychopathy than he doesn't. I'm curious. Like what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaguya Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Again, nobody is denying Joff is a psychopath. But psychopath =\= Evil, that's like saying that every pedophile is a child molester. Just imagine Joffrey being raised by an evil mother like Cersei, obviously that's not going to help his condition isn't it? There are plenty of psychopaths that function well in societies provided they have good education and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batbob45 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Stannis would turn him into a vigilante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dofs Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't think that Joffrey was mentally ill or anything. There a lot of kids like Joffrey. Some kids at his age are very cruel, they can be even crueler than Joffrey. But most of them grow up out of it and become decent men. Thought that would have been impossible with Cersei for a parent. The problem of Joffrey is that he could do anything he wanted without any punishment and sometime was even prised by his mother. So yes, had Joffrey been raised by someone better than Cersei, I believe he could have been way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't think that Joffrey was mentally ill or anything. There a lot of kids like Joffrey. Some kids at his age are very cruel, they can be even crueler than Joffrey. But most of them grow up out of it and become decent men. Thought that would have been impossible with Cersei for a parent. The problem of Joffrey is that he could do anything he wanted without any punishment and sometime was even prised by his mother. So yes, had Joffrey been raised by someone better than Cersei, I believe he could have been way better. There are not a lot of kids like Joffrey. And those who are like him do not grow out of it to become decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 nm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourmyleOfCeres Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm curious. Like what? Psychopathy = "enduring anti-social behavior". Anti-social means "lacks consideration for others and may cause damage to the society, whether intentionally or through negligence." Remind you of anyone? Psychopathy = "diminished empathy and remorse". Empathy meaning to feel what others feel, to imagine how it feels to be another person. Remorse meaning feeling sorry for having done something bad. Jaime meets these two criteria perfectly. He expresses great sadness about his bad reputation - expresses none about Bran Stark. Psychopath = "disinhibited or bold behavior". Disinhibited means disregard for social conventions (incest much?), impulsivity (push anyone off a tower lately?), and poor risk assessment (Jaime was noted by opposing commanders as being aggressive and risk-taking in battle, and it was why he was captured). Bold means lacking fear. Jaime is - not a fearful character. He's a psycho, imo. All Tywin's kids are crazy - Tyrion the extreme neurotic is actually the sanest one, which puts in perspective how crazy they other two are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well its a matter of nurture and so I think that Joffrey could've come out at least ok if given a good raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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