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What if Joffrey was raised by someone else


Kaguya

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Kind of a nature/nurture deal here. Who's to say if Joff was born with innate dark tendencies or not. Being brought up by Cersei and spoiled, arrogant Lannisters certainly didn't help. I think Joff wouldn't have been so bad if he was raised with someone who taught him humility.


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In short, Joffrey truly was born a psychopath, but it wouldn't be too late, in his younger years, to actually teach him right from wrong and make him a better person.

I think that's actually Joffrey's problem, rather than some mental condition. He didn't know right from wrong due to the way he was raised. Cersei and Robert were very neglecting about shaping him to rule and teach him he wasn't above everybody else. Egg was Dunk's squire and Rhaegar considered the ones he had as friends, because at some point he was one himself, which isn't exactly a glamorous task for a future King, but apparently, that's not good enough for Joffrey and Tommen.

Even in a society like Westeros, when nobility is thought to be "better", they do care about the smalkfolk, whether due to compassion or obligation. Joffrey had Cersei's approach in life, considering himself to be "a lion" and entitled to be cruel to everybody else (like he said in show, "everybody is mine to torture")

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Lets say that after the cat incident, Robert becomes frightened and sends his son off to Ned or Tywin, how much different would have the boy ended up as opposed to being raised by Cersei?

If Tywin, he'd be worse - all the same evil of Cersei or Tywin himself, but more controlled.

If Ned, perhaps he'd not be such an ultradouche. Perhaps he would be like Theon, but more.

If Jon Arryn ... who knows. Maybe he'd go to the Vale and become Lysa's surrogate Littlefinger baby. Now there's a scary thought.

Cersei love and children and her bro as her properties. Its not love. Like Joff liked Sandor as his dog and Ramsay loved the first Reek as a rape buddy necrophile manservant.

Exactly. Cersei does not love, she wants gratification - what she can get out of someone is all that matters.

Isn't it said that Cersei devoted all her time to Joffrey?

If Robert paid a little attention to Joffrey, maybe forcing Joffrey to take up the sword with a skilled Master at Arms, perhaps Joffrey's psychopathy could be curbed to jousting and swordplay. It also would have curbed Cersei's influence over him. Cersei and Robert are both to blame for how awful he was, Robert for his neglect and Cersei for her involvement.

Cersei did pay attention (too much) to Joffrey. He was her first-born golden boy, and she denied him nothing, raising him in her own image. (Notable that she also kept Jaime out of Joffrey's life, way beyond even maintaining a facade of legitimacy.) Her second and third born were far less important to her, and likely got less of her mothering, and were better for it. Hilarious that as soon as Joffrey's dead, all her own relatives want to save Tommen from her influence; even her kin knew where Joffrey's faults originated.

Robert thought little good of Joffrey - probably started out enthusiastically until he was faced with some difficulty and also Cersei cut him out of the boy's life. It is funny that he also got on better with his bastards from infancy - Joffrey cried whenever Robert held him, as if the blood itself was saying "you're not my dad". However, there's no evidence that Robert was on bad terms with Myrcella or Tommen - nothing to suggest some inherent insanity or resentment over their father's neglectful ways. Perhaps Robert was less neglectful of them as well, because he liked to be around people who were of agreeable nature. I'm not sure the problem with Joffrey would have been solved by having more attention from Robert, because Joffrey seemed to emulate him in all the wrong ways.

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If Tywin, he'd be worse - all the same evil of Cersei or Tywin himself, but more controlled.

If Ned, perhaps he'd not be such an ultradouche. Perhaps he would be like Theon, but more.

If Jon Arryn ... who knows. Maybe he'd go to the Vale and become Lysa's surrogate Littlefinger baby. Now there's a scary thought.

Exactly. Cersei does not love, she wants gratification - what she can get out of someone is all that matters.

Cersei did pay attention (too much) to Joffrey. He was her first-born golden boy, and she denied him nothing, raising him in her own image. (Notable that she also kept Jaime out of Joffrey's life, way beyond even maintaining a facade of legitimacy.) Her second and third born were far less important to her, and likely got less of her mothering, and were better for it. Hilarious that as soon as Joffrey's dead, all her own relatives want to save Tommen from her influence; even her kin knew where Joffrey's faults originated.

Robert thought little good of Joffrey - probably started out enthusiastically until he was faced with some difficulty and also Cersei cut him out of the boy's life. It is funny that he also got on better with his bastards from infancy - Joffrey cried whenever Robert held him, as if the blood itself was saying "you're not my dad". However, there's no evidence that Robert was on bad terms with Myrcella or Tommen - nothing to suggest some inherent insanity or resentment over their father's neglectful ways. Perhaps Robert was less neglectful of them as well, because he liked to be around people who were of agreeable nature. I'm not sure the problem with Joffrey would have been solved by having more attention from Robert, because Joffrey seemed to emulate him in all the wrong ways.

He would be worse under Tywin? Well i guess so, seeing as how Cersei turned out.

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What if Stannis foster Joffrey? He might teach Joffrey to use his cruelty on evil people. He could make Joffrey into a Westeros' version of Dexter Morgan.

Dexter Morgan isn't a hero - he's a serial killer.

And Stannis would have had Joffrey executed for turning out so. Remember, Stannis believes that good acts do not wash out the bad and vice versa - they each have their own reward.

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If Joffrey had grown up in Winterfell as Ned and Catelyn's ward, he might've actually turned out to be worthy of Sansa. Joffrey always wanted to be loved by Robert; with Eddard's influence, he might've actually learned to be more empathetic. It would probably have helped to have some older, bigger brothers to knock him down to size too.

Being Ned's ward worked out really well for toothless fingerless Theon. Robert should have sent him to the wall after the cat thing.

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Dexter Morgan isn't a hero - he's a serial killer.

And Stannis would have had Joffrey executed for turning out so. Remember, Stannis believes that good acts do not wash out the bad and vice versa - they each have their own reward.

Dexter uses his psychopathy to kill bad people though right? (I've only watched like 2 eps of that show)

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What if Stannis foster Joffrey? He might teach Joffrey to use his cruelty on evil people. He could make Joffrey into a Westeros' version of Dexter Morgan.

I was thinking the same thing. He could kill Ramsay, Gregor and gang, Vargo and gang, all the baddies.

But instead of Stannis I would suggest someone else since Stannis doesn't like "abominations borne of incest." Stannis would not have done better than Robert IMO. Joffrey needed as much love and attention as possible in order to "focus" him *cringe.* I don't think any man in Westeros is capable of such "cuddling."

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I was thinking the same thing. He could kill Ramsay, Gregor and gang, Vargo and gang, all the baddies.

And his mother, that would be funny to watch.

"Giving birth to me was the worst mistake you have ever done mother..*Pulls out knife*"

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Dexter uses his psychopathy to kill bad people though right? (I've only watched like 2 eps of that show)

I wasn't a fan of the show and so have never read the books, but who is Dexter to decide that these people should be murdered? Is it then OK for someone to murder Dexter? I find Dexter being a beloved hero by some rather disturbing, to be honest. But I've always thought that's supposed to be something that fans of the books or show are supposed to think about. Is it really "justice" when Dexter is using that as a justification for serial killing? What about when he gets it wrong? The series I watched - as my then girlfriend was a fan - he has a police officer locked up and considers killing him as the cop has correctly worked out that he's a murderer. (And this inadvertently leads to the cop's death, and him being framed as a murderer himself.)

If Dexter existed in Westeros, I can't see any outcome for him under Stannis than execution.

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I wasn't a fan of the show and so have never read the books, but who is Dexter to decide that these people should be murdered? Is it then OK for someone to murder Dexter? I find Dexter being a beloved hero by some rather disturbing, to be honest. But I've always thought that's supposed to be something that fans of the books or show are supposed to think about. Is it really "justice" when Dexter is using that as a justification for serial killing? What about when he gets it wrong? The series I watched - as my then girlfriend was a fan - he has a police officer locked up and considers killing him as the cop has correctly worked out that he's a murderer. (And this inadvertently leads to the cop's death, and him being framed as a murderer himself.)

If Dexter existed in Westeros, I can't see any outcome for him under Stannis than execution.

Depends on each individuals moral compass. I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time Dexter is benefiting society by offing those horrible people.

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Depends on each individuals moral compass. I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time Dexter is benefiting society by offing those horrible people.

Most evil is done by people who believe they're doing good. Hitler, Stalin, crusades, conquistadors, etc.

Thinking you're doing right doesn't make you right, but thinking you have the right to decide who is wrong probably makes you wrong.

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