What's the Point of "Ser" Instead of "Sir"

[JamesOfHouseMurphy]

Same reason the English spell aluminum, color, and many other words wrong.

You must be joking

[unluckynumber11]

Funny enough, George RR Martin actually did spell "Ser" as "Sir" once in A Dance With Dragons.

[JamesOfHouseMurphy]

Funny enough, George RR Martin actually did spell "Ser" as "Sir" once in A Dance With Dragons.

Haha poor editing do you know where?

[unluckynumber11]

Haha poor editing do you know where?

Not page number no, sorry. All I remember was that is was in a Jon chapter, describing those two knights who went the wrong way or however he put it. I do have a picture of the line though.

[BrienneofQarth]

Same reason the English spell aluminum, color, and many other words wrong.

Oh dear...this thread has given me my daily laugh, at least.... :lmao:

1) I think anything goes in fantasy/ invented worlds; it's given us the bugblatter beast of traal, so why not ser? Inventing names makes Westeros unique and different, but also capable of evoking our (medieval, western european, chivalric) world through these near sounding words. ( er homophones? homographs?homonyms?)

2) Spellings were not standardised in English until, I think, the C18th. So, if we're going down the historical authenticity route, ser, sur, seir, syr, all good.

So, we have a problem with Ser sounding like an arse word,but Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun is fine?

[Ser Not Appearing]

Why do Americans spell it color instead of colour?

(Because we won the war, that's why!)

... WHICH MEANS U CAN GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!

Obviously this joke works best when speaking to someone from England.

[ChillyPolly]

Sarcasm or genuine ignorance?

I swear we need a sarcasm font.

Why does it need to be either?

Spelling is a matter of convention ... arbitrary convention. Nonetheless, the idea of "right" or "wrong" spelling is not entirely meaningless, because these conventions have value.

America has its own conventions. According to these conventions, "aluminium" and "colour" are indeed the "wrong" spellings. Moreover, the American conventions can claim to have the practical real-world benefit of increased efficiency. Why use 6 letters when 5 will do?

I'm not trying to side with American spellings. There are also benefits to continued loyalty to the conventions of the past. But it is all arbitrary. But if we are not allowed to label arbitrary conventions as "right" and "wrong", then the whole idea of correct spelling becomes meaningless. I am not prepared to go that far.

Calling someone "ignorant" because he endorses spelling conventions that you disapprove of sounds ignorant to me. But I'm not sure that's what you meant.

[Capt Captain]

It's easier to type ser with one hand.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Same reason the English spell aluminum, color, and many other words wrong.

America!!!! More like you're too lazy to spell correctly.

[BrienneofQarth]

Calling someone "ignorant" because he endorses spelling conventions that you disapprove of sounds ignorant to me. But I'm not sure that's what you meant.

No Ser! I think that said person is being called ignorant because they are ignorant of other cultures, dialects and about 400 years of history, It's nothing to do with 'endorsing', as you put it, one set of spelling conventions, and everything to do with assuming that the dialect of another culture is 'wrong'.

I do begin to feel bad for how many people (including, sadly myself) have taken issue with the initial statement though.....

[The Marquis de Leech]

Al-you-min-yum.

But then I'm a kiwi...

Seriously though, I dislike 'ser' and the other faux archaisms in the series. If you don't want to use 'sir', make your system of knighthood generally different: changing a single letter is neither here nor there. It's simply painting over something and pretending it's original.

[ChillyPolly]

No Ser! I think that said person is being called ignorant because they are ignorant of other cultures, dialects and about 400 years of history,

That makes no sense to me. He is obviously perfectly aware that the British have different spelling conventions than Americans do. What is this "ignorance of other cultures" of which he is being accused?

And if you think that "400 years of history" unambiguously support British over American spellings, you are probably guilty of oversimplification at best.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Moreover, the American conventions can claim to have the practical real-world benefit of increased efficiency. Why use 6 letters when 5 will do?

British "lift" vs. US "elevator"?

[Kikajon]

Up till now I was convinced that "ser" and "sir" were two different words meaning

1. ser - a knight

2. sir - a baronet

I'm puzzled! :)

so, let alone what is more correct, I am now also wandering how it can be spelled "schedule"

one suggestion was SHH- A- DULE and the other one?

In my phone calls at work I take a LOT of pains not to pronounce it because I really have no idea of how :)

Thanks

[ChillyPolly]

It's the same deal as "southron," isn't it?

It's a real word ... referring to a southern person.

Historically used by the Scots to refer to (for instance) the English.

Used by J.R.R. Tolkien to refer to the Haradrim, a people from the south of Middle Earth.

Used in the US to refer to inhabitants of the Southern States.

[BrienneofQarth]

Same reason the English spell aluminum, color, and many other words wrong.

Chilly Polly, I am referring very specifically to the use of the word 'wrong' in this statement. There is nothing 'wrong' in the dialectal spelling variation between English speaking (ee.g. US/UK, or kiwi! ) nations. The poster's assumption implies that another cultures' version of English is less valid than US English, and by extension he or she doesn't know the reasons for these variations, and I'm sorry but I do see both of these things as ignorant.

[Universal Sword Donor]

It's amazing people freaking over something that is supposed to be humorous.

If only that had made it a few posts down instead of getting righteously indignant.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Up till now I was convinced that "ser" and "sir" were two different words meaning

1. ser - a knight

2. sir - a baronet

I'm puzzled! :)

so, let alone what is more correct, I am now also wandering how it can be spelled "schedule"

one suggestion was SHH- A- DULE and the other one?

In my phone calls at work I take a LOT of pains not to pronounce it because I really have no idea of how :)

Thanks

Baronet is an inherited title. If you are the heir, you become 'Sir' on your predecessor's death. Knighthoods are awarded, but not passed on to your heirs.

As for schedule...

UK: Shed-jool.

US: Sked-jool.

[BrienneofQarth]

And if you think that "400 years of history" unambiguously support British over American spellings, you are probably guilty of oversimplification at best.

That is absolutely not what I said. I don't know where you are getting all these readings. I said that assuming any one version of English, or even fantasy Martinian English is superior to another is wrong. I am not going to clog up this short and otherwise humorous thread with a short history of the politics of socio-linguistics, but please. Suffice to say there is nothing 'unambiguous' about it.

Universal Sword Donor, guilty as charged :crying:

[Universal Sword Donor]

That is absolutely not what I said. I don't know where you are getting all these readings. I said that assuming any one version of English, or even fantasy Martinian English is superior to another is wrong. I am not going to clog up this short and otherwise humorous thread with a short history of the politics socio-linguistics, but please. Suffice to say there is nothing 'unambiguous' about it.

Universal Sword Donor, guilty as charged :crying:

Haha no hard feelings. I think you are one of at least five who did so. To be fair, I should use a more ridiculous font when posting something that can go either way as opposed to something like "How to win friends and influence people" by Ser Alliser Thorne