(Spoilers for book/show) Well a few theories just got confirmed/debunked...

[Guest Thorrand]

Regarding the Night's King, we don't know if it's the same creature from Old Nan's tale or if it's a title, which may or may not be inheritable. Turning things around, imagine the White Walkers reunite at the Heart of Winter during the events of ACOK to discuss current events, someone points out that the King of Winter has marched south with an army and they react "Good! Brandon the Builder/That Dude from Hot Springs Village is gone now!" OTOH, we know humans die of old age and we don't know if the same applies to White Walkers.

They appear to have some mastery over death, so I'm willing to bet they don't age and die. Age yes (else there would be a lot of tiny other babies, like forever. While an awesome battle scene that would make, it's not very practical.) but not die.

[Ahri Adaran]

Well, "executive producer" means a lot more involvement than the one episode script per season and contract payment. I know where you're coming from - everything that's being said in media and press releases points towards what you say, but I'm unsure...

How so? Seems like except for the one episode a year it's a sinecure. You never hear Martin discussing work he's done for the show except for a bit of input on casting way back when.

[King Belushi]

The idea that D&D would just make up their own version of the nature of the White Walkers is a huge stretch. IMO what we saw last night is at least very, very close to how book canon will turn out.

This is the reality of being a fan of the great fantasy super-epic of our time: you experience it as a book and a television show simultaneously, and secrets are revealed alternately in books, TV episodes, and excerpts posted to the web by GRRM.

Accept this, and you'll squeeze the maximum amount of joy from the next ~5 years between now and the series' ultimate conclusion.

I fully agree. I'm glad they can still surprise us book readers.

[Lord Voldemort]

If this is book canon, it's a flat-out spoiler. If it's not, what the hell?

Why is it a spoiler? I don't get this. This is - so far - a show about ...

... 1) the Game of Thrones in the world Westeros (created by GRRM and a bit by D&D and their writers), and ...

... 2) the Ice Zombie Invasion in the world Westeros (created by GRRM and a bit by D&D and their writers).

People watch this show to get information on the GoT and the White Walkers. When you get information, it's not a "spoiler".

Jesus ...

[GarthButchers]

where are the teenaged white walkers?

the mall?

[BlueDragon]

where are the teenaged white walkers?

the mall?

I strongly suspect that magic turns the babies into 'adults' with an abracadabra move.

They would be super easy to control by the central 12/13 as they know nothing, have not formed memories or ego .

[binhorde]

Did anyone else find the Rast line to Hodor "If I was as big as you I'd be king of the world" interesting?

I don't think it means Hodor will be king of anything, but it wouldn't surprise me either if that was some type of foreshadowing about who or what exactly Hodor is.

[GarthButchers]

I strongly suspect that magic turns the babies into 'adults' with an abracadabra move.

They would be super easy to control by the central 12/13 as they know nothing, have not formed memories or ego .

actually that makes a lot of sense

[Alliser Trump]

Why is it a spoiler? I don't get this. This is - so far - a show about ...

... 1) the Game of Thrones in the world Westeros (created by GRRM and a bit by D&D and their writers), and ...

... 2) the Ice Zombie Invasion in the world Westeros (created by GRRM and a bit by D&D and their writers).

People watch this show to get information on the GoT and the White Walkers. When you get information, it's not a "spoiler".

Jesus ...

It is a spoiler when you receive new story content from a medium that is not expected to provide new story content. It is not unlike the relationship between anime and manga/light novels, or book series and movie series (Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.). In these examples, only one medium is expected to provide the new story material, and that medium is usually the written medium (books), and not the audio/visual medium (movies, tv shows). Because this rule is usually followed, readers can feel safe watching the show or movie because they know that no new story information will be revealed. Many people prefer to receive new story content from one particular medium, regardless of which one it is, so this (unwritten) rule is important to a lot of people.

"Oathkeeper" pretty much turned that rule upside down. Now there is nothing sacred. People who read the books AND watch the shows, but prefer to get new story details exclusively from the books, now have a choice to make: Do they continue watching the show or not? Believe it or not, this is a pretty big deal to a LOT of people, just like it is a big deal for exclusive show-watchers to not read the books so that they don't receive any spoilers from the books.

[Alliser Trump]

My theory on the matter:

D&D are pretty sure that they will very likely have to surpass the books, so they will be dropping little nuggets like this on us more often in the future, so that we will be prepared to receive new story content from the show, as opposed to the books. GRRM has already given them the future story information and trusted them with it, so it would only make sense that what we saw in "Oathkeeper" will be pretty similar to what we will read in the future books.

IIRC, GRRM said that we will go much further north in TWOW than we have previously, so I would not be surprised if that last scene in "Oathkeeper" was lifted straight from TWOW.

[johndance]

We should remember that the "Night's King" episode - perhaps more than any GoT episode that ever went before it - has totally thrown cannon out the window.

1 Locke was never in the book and now he's buddying up with Jon Snow to betray him

2. he intends to betray him on a mission to Craster's which never happened in the book

3 Locke already knew anyway, but he overhears Jon Snow talk about his brothers being alive which he never knew in the books.

4 The "Famous five" expedition of Bran, Hodor etc. (I call them that because they mostly have posh English accents, when in the book Jojen and Mera were supposed to be swampy, crannogy people) are caught by the Nights watch mutineers

This is all crap that is not in the books. Why do you think the last scene will be any different?

I think the first 4 things you mentioned are being over reacted to, in the sense that everyone is assuming things that will take place in the next episode. At this point all that stuff is still just filler to me, even more so for Bran and Co. At this point in their journey they don't have to much left in between now and getting to BR. The runners are adding this to give them more time in between. I think everyone is assuming that Bran and Jon will meet, and Locke will continue to be a prominent character.

We just have to wait and see what happens. It's entirely possible that Bran and Co. escape before or during the assumed battle between Jon and Co. and the mutineers(sp?). And Locke reveals his true intentions and gets taken out. Jon goes back to the wall and prepares for the wildlings and Bran and Co. continue to find BR. Jon knows Bran is probably still out there but doesn't know for sure, and realizes he can't help him anymore. Now we're back to the same spot really we were if this 'filler' wasn't added.

Now, if Bran and Jon meet and interact, then we can react accordingly, because that isn't just filler, it's really re-writing what happens.

[johndance]

It is a spoiler when you receive new story content from a medium that is not expected to provide new story content. It is not unlike the relationship between anime and manga/light novels, or book series and movie series (Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.). In these examples, only one medium is expected to provide the new story material, and that medium is usually the written medium (books), and not the audio/visual medium (movies, tv shows). Because this rule is usually followed, readers can feel safe watching the show or movie because they know that no new story information will be revealed. Many people prefer to receive new story content from one particular medium, regardless of which one it is, so this (unwritten) rule is important to a lot of people.

"Oathkeeper" pretty much turned that rule upside down. Now there is nothing sacred. People who read the books AND watch the shows, but prefer to get new story details exclusively from the books, now have a choice to make: Do they continue watching the show or not? Believe it or not, this is a pretty big deal to a LOT of people, just like it is a big deal for exclusive show-watchers to not read the books so that they don't receive any spoilers from the books.

The only thing about this is that book readers have known this day was going to come. Now granted, it did come earlier then we would have expected without much of a warning, but I think we can be honest with ourselves here and admit that eventually we knew the choice you reference was going to have to be made. Those who would prefer to get the new details from the books only probably should have stopped watching the show a while ago. I contemplated not watching it anymore, but I really enjoy it to much. So now I've decided that if I get the new material from the show first, then I'm ok with it. We knew this day would come, so I don't think to many people should be upset by it.

[Father of Dragons]

I'm pretty sure that when they named the walker the Night's King, it was just an error when someone was looking for a name to give it

[Robbie Hood]

We're all little Melisandres, looking into the flames and seeing nothing but smoke and shadow.

[Masonity]

We're all little Melisandres, looking into the flames and seeing nothing but smoke and shadow.

Pfft, when I look, all i see is Snow.

[MrsManderly]

What I want to know is where are all the Heresy thread veterans these last 48 hours?!?

I would have expected the Board to be exploding under a storm of Celtic/Nordic-inspired analysis based on what - I agree (particularly given the information was removed from that HBO write-up) - what a pretty major spoiler.

[abaxter]

i think it if that is indeed a scene from tWOW, then that is one hell of a spoiler in a number of ways,

1. coldhands isnt the NK on some sort of redemption mission (i was hoping he was!)

2. the 12 character around the night's king has to be reference to 12 LCs before night kings. Maybe also 12 heroes who traveled with the hero of the dawn.

3. the night's king somehow became a WW when everyone thought he died.

i also see a slight contradiction here (probably unintentional)

the NK was found to be sacrificing babies to the WWs, and assuming the babies become WW, then he logically cant be the only WW who can turn babies into WW, so why did the first WW go miles north to take the baby solely to NK.

other question is where are female WWs as NK is said to have been canoodling with one. and if there are female WWs, why need to convert babies.

[SixPence]

what if the ww/others are the first men? "the blood of the first men runs in my veins" has a whole different meaning if that is the case. but didnt the first men fight the others before the andals even arrived?

oh, my, god. hear me out. what if the nk story was flipped around. what if he was an other who married a human girl? my mind is completely blown right now and so many ideas are bounncing around up there. aaahhhh! so many questions!

What if the ww are not really the others? What if the ww is just another layer of protection agains't the others, beyond the wall. And their increased activity is really just them recruiting an army to defend agains't the others. The first Lord Commanders could've used some sort of magic to transform themselves into warriors more suited to live and fight in the lands beyond the wall, giving the Westeros a fighting chance agains't the others, where they would've had none if they all stayed human. What if the real threat is not yet uncovered... And furthermore, what if the Land of Always Winter is that because it's necessary, to protect agains't something else, something that's weakened by the cold? And the presence of humans north of the wall is what warms it up. What if they're really a protection? Agains't that which destroyed Valyria...

[Jaqen H'Ghar Is The Doctor]

So can we all agree that Benjen is coldhands then? I mean this disproves him being the Night's King and we know Bloodraven is the three-eyed crow. "but Leaf said he died a long time ago". Could just be a distraction by Martin to throw us off since Benjen is such a popular theory. I mean they are both men of the night's watch. Both described as very thin and he refuses to show his face around Bran.

[SixPence]

i think it if that is indeed a scene from tWOW, then that is one hell of a spoiler in a number of ways,

1. coldhands isnt the NK on some sort of redemption mission (i was hoping he was!)

2. the 12 character around the night's king has to be reference to 12 LCs before night kings. Maybe also 12 heroes who traveled with the hero of the dawn.

3. the night's king somehow became a WW when everyone thought he died.

i also see a slight contradiction here (probably unintentional)

the NK was found to be sacrificing babies to the WWs, and assuming the babies become WW, then he logically cant be the only WW who can turn babies into WW, so why did the first WW go miles north to take the baby solely to NK.

other question is where are female WWs as NK is said to have been canoodling with one. and if there are female WWs, why need to convert babies.

Coldhands COULD be the ww carrying the baby though... They did make a noticeable shot of his hands when he was riding before you saw his face, which made me think it was ch coming to Bran&Co's rescue at first. He would fit the description decently, and have been the same ww we've seen in all the previous ww shots... Plus he seemed to me to be wearing tattered nights watchs armour as well... From the books I was kinda hoping Coldhands was Benjen Stark turned WW... It's not necessarily so that they only turn babies, it could be the Stark lineage or the First Men lineage that is turned, whilst those without the right bloodline are those slaughtered. We don't know anything about Craster's heritage, so he could possibly be a bad sheep Stark...