Ziggy Targdust Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 He was repaid when he took all that land that belonged to the NW. Debt repaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 He was repaid when he took all that land that belonged to the NW. Debt repaid. The Night's Watch paid him in that case not the rest of the Realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Thornhart Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 This is why I'm predicting Stannis will be Hand of the King for Jon at the end, bringing the legend of Orys Baratheon full circle. He is an unsung hero, not receiving nor requiring praise, so the king's life simply isn't for him. He lives the unglamorous and busy life of a Hand even now, doing all the work protecting the realm while the supposed royal family does nothing. He is a pretty perfect Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The Night's Watch paid him in that case not the rest of the Realm.The NW protects the realm, they paid on behalf of the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The NW protects the realm, they paid on behalf of the realm. Well he protected the NW ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well he protected the NW ;)And was well compensated for his protection, as if a king deserves to be rewarded for doing his job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 To be fair Stannis has no clue what exactly happened in King's Landing, nor does he know Sansa personally. For all he knew she was in on it to gain power, especially since she was engaged to Joffrey. Yeah, the 12 year-old was on it to gain power... I doubt anyone would be that stupid to think that. And we all know whose idea was her betrothal to Joffrey - their parents. As I said in my reply to E-Ro, there is no ill will from Stannis here. He just doesn't want to see Tyrion at the head of Winterfell. Methinks yes. Bypassing Stannis by Robert was pointless, while bypassing Sansa keeps Stannis' enemies out of Winterfell. It's the Lannisters that concern him, not Sansa. If Sansa would not have been married, Stannis would have been happy to get her to Winterfell. Ummm, no. I am sorry, and I understand Stannis here perfectly and I love him for what he has done, but this is not truly the most lawful thing from him. He simply bypassed her because of the marriage. He can't do that, but he does, because it suits him. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 And was well compensated for his protection, as if a king should be rewarded for doing his job Good at least we are on the same page that Stannis is the king ;) But seriously the NW are "employed" by the Realm. The Night's watch was paying it's on boss by that logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Yeah, the 12 year-old was on it to gain power... I doubt anyone would be that stupid to think that. And we all know whose idea was her betrothal to Joffrey - their parents. As I said in my reply to E-Ro, there is no ill will from Stannis here. He just doesn't want to see Tyrion at the head of Winterfell. Was just a suggestion. Seriously. It's not too far off that someone could talk a young girl into doing something like that. In Westeros this happens pretty often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Ummm, no. I am sorry, and I understand Stannis here perfectly and I love him for what he has done, but this is not truly the most lawful thing from him. He simply bypassed her because of the marriage. He can't do that, but he does, because it suits him. It's that simple. Jon is right there with him, Sansa is missing and a fugitive. He can't really bypass someone who has disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Targdust Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Good at least we are on the same page that Stannis is the king ;) But seriously the NW are "employed" by the Realm. The Night's watch was paying it's on boss by that logic.Stannis is a king, sure. THE king, clearly not.Regardless of who is the boss, Stannis took that land clearly as compensation for helping the NW, he isn't owed anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I don't remember any of this, but I do remember Robb's plans to go back North. So, following that: if RW still happens, Tywin vs. the Crown gets fast-tracked. If not, Robb's back in Winterfell. It's all in the books. Aemon sent the letters when Alester was Hand to Stannis, somewhere between ASOS Prologue, and Davos III. Alester was arrested, Davos released, and saw the leeches being used. This was before Balon died, so Robb hearing from a merchant in Seaguard that Balon died places Robb alive well after the letter is sent. Robb talks about sending a 100 men to the Watch in exchange for Jon if he dies and needs an heir. He makes no mention of any intentions to come to the aid of the Watch from what sounds like imminent danger - He only talks about the Ironbron - A threat that is comprised of less than a 100 men at Moat Cailin, a token force at Deepwood Motte, and less than a 100 men at Torrhen's Square. Robb does not mention the Watch, or the threat to it, or aiding it, other than some unspecified time in the future incase he is dead and would trade 100 men for his bastard brother. There is nothing to indicate that he took the letter seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Stannis is a king, sure. THE king, clearly not.Regardless of who is the boss, Stannis took that land clearly as compensation for helping the NW, he isn't owed anything anymore. Yeah I can agree on that for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Was just a suggestion. Seriously. It's not too far off that someone could talk a young girl into doing something like that. In Westeros this happens pretty often. In Westeros is common that a 12 year-old girl marries willingly for a family that killed her father in front of her? Jon is right there with him, Sansa is missing and a fugitive. He can't really bypass someone who has disappeared. And Jon reminds him of who he is, and who Sansa is. Stannis bypassed Sansa because of understandable reasons. One might wonder why he hadn't bypassed himself since obviously other pretenders had far greater armies and it was more convenient. No matter how you twist this, Stannis did something that suited mainly him. I would perhaps even argue that it may be sign of him abandoning rigid norms and understanding a world better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 In Westeros is common that a 12 year-old girl marries willingly for a family that killed her father in front of her? And Jon reminds him of who he is, and who Sansa is. Stannis bypassed Sansa because of understandable reasons. One might wonder why he hadn't bypassed himself since obviously other pretenders had far greater armies and it was more convenient. No matter how you twist this, Stannis did something that suited mainly him. I would perhaps even argue that it may be sign of him abandoning rigid norms and understanding a world better. Like I said he doesn't know her personally. He himself is not very attached to family and so are others, this is a world were marrying for power is everything. I just presented the fact that Stannis has no idea of what was happening at any given time in KL, no need to take it personal. Come on. Jon didn't even know if Sansa was still alive himself. Stannis needed a Stark and Jon was the only one left that was alive for sure. He could have skipped the whole thing right away and marched south to take Winterfell in the name of House Baratheon. I don't know how that compares to himself, Sansa's and his situation are not even similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Stannis was never really given his proper due for his heroic and gallant intervention at the Battle of the Wall. The details of the battle are really only known to the Watch, Stannis' men, the Wildlings, and maybe some Northmen here or there. But the rest of the country never knew how close Westeros was to being completely overrun by a Wildling horde of 100,000. The Watch was on the brink of collapse and was going to lose that battle. Should the wall fall the already war-torn North and ravaged Riverlands at the time of AFFC would have almost certainly been completely overrun. Whose to say how far the Wildlings would have gotten? Gathering deserters, vandals, brigands, and all manner of opportunists to their cause along the way. Stannis saved Westeros. He saved a country that wouldn't recognize him as the rightful king yet rescued it all the same. And yet the country remains relatively ungrateful. My hope is that his legend will spread south eventually and people will realize just how much he sacrificed for them. Otherwise they deserve the awful Lannister/Tyrell hodge-podge they've got and not the King who fucking cared. One could say that the realm was in disarray because of Stannis, who insisted in being even though nobody wanted him, and killed the other claimants through black arts and the intervention of a foreign god. If he hadn't commited kinslaying by killing his brother Renly, he would have defeated the Lannisters and Robb could have expelled the Ironborn from the North, bringing stabilty back to Westeros and thus making impossible the Wildling invasion. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 One could say that the realm was in disarray because of Stannis, who insisted in being even though nobody wanted him, and killed the other claimants through black arts and the intervention of a foreign god. If he hadn't commited kinslaying by killing his brother Renly, he would have defeated the Lannisters and Robb could have expelled the Ironborn from the North, bringing stabilty back to Westeros and thus making impossible the Wildling invasion. :P I think Catelyn, Cersei and the attack on the Riverlands did more to put the realm in disarray... Stannis wasn't even really part of the war until Renly started marching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To catch a Lannister Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 One could say that the realm was in disarray because of Stannis, who insisted in being even though nobody wanted him, and killed the other claimants through black arts and the intervention of a foreign god. If he hadn't commited kinslaying by killing his brother Renly, he would have defeated the Lannisters and Robb could have expelled the Ironborn from the North, bringing stabilty back to Westeros and thus making impossible the Wildling invasion. :P What does this have to do with anything? It's like Jaime said, swords, nails, lances, choose your weapon. It doesn't matter how you kill your enemies. And Renly betrayed Stannis. He owed him fealty, he was the rightful king, and not to mention his older brother! Stannis did the same for Robert. And all the could's would's and should's in the world were all beaten by one did. None of those things you mentioned happened. Stannis actually went to the wall and stopped the Wildlings while all those people you mention squabbled amongst themselves in perpetuity. Hence Westeros owes him a great debt they may never be able to repay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Like I said he doesn't know her personally. He himself is not very attached to family and so are others, this is a world were marrying for power is everything. I just presented the fact that Stannis has no idea of what was happening at any given time in KL, no need to take it personal. Come on. Jon didn't even know if Sansa was still alive himself.Stannis needed a Stark and Jon was the only one left that was alive for sure. He could have skipped the whole thing right away and marched south to take Winterfell in the name of House Baratheon. I don't know how that compares to himself, Sansa's and his situation are not even similar. Pointing out the nonsense in the comment is nothing personal. Stannis doesn't consider Sansa dead, and neither does half of Westeros looking for her. Yeah, he could have marched ALONE to seize Winterfell, without the support of lion's share of his army: the mountain clans. And that would be rather interesting campaign to see. Well, Stannis could have easily abandoned the pursue the Throne since that is most practical thing to do, just like in Sansa's case. If the inheritance laws mean so little, why the hell you are waging war because of inheritance law? But, again, as I said, we shouldn't see this as solely act of Stannis' possible hypocrisy as some people do, but more as an act of abandoning rigid norms he abode to. We see Stannis who is playing the Game outside the rigidness of his "just cause' and that is a good progress, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 They owe him but they will never realise or acknowledge it. Many of the high lords, especially those in KL, are simply self-serving twits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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