Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Hi everyone, I'm completely new to the forum and I just finished reading the book series for the first time. So please bear with me if this is already solved or completely ridiculous. But I have been reading the forum for quite a while and I haven't found any convincing theory on what I'm about to ask so I came up with my own (at least I didn't find any other forum entry that had the same idea). I posted this theory already as an answer in an existing thread and got no response. So I'll just try again :) I should probably also mention that english is not my first language. So please excuse any grammar and spelling mistakes! Well, so here it goes: My problem is that I cannot explain (adult and baby) Aegon's hair and eye color.When Young Griff first showed up I immediately thought that he was fake. How could a son of Rhaegar and Elia be silvery-blond and purple eyed? Of course he would be dark! Assuming genetics work the way they do in our world Elia's dark genes would be dominant. Or is there a blond Martell mentioned anywhere? For days after finishing the series I was completely convinced that Aegon was fake because he had no dark hair and eyes. I would read all the forum entries on the fAegon theories and think to myself OF COURSE he's fake, he can't possibly be Elia Martell's son! (yes, with a very smug grin on my face). Until I read somewhere (I think it was on his wiki page) that baby Aegon had the Targaryen coloring and that only his sister Rhaenys shares the Martell features. I'm actually really bothered by this. We know genetics are a fact in the world of Westeros (this whole "the seed is strong" thing with Robert's bastards). Why then suddenly this completely random deviation of how genetics work? Are we to assume that the Targayen genes are so special that they can be dominant even though blond hair is recessive? Then why is Rhaenys not blond too? (I am aware that the hair color is not really blond but silver but it's easier to just write blond than silver-haired all the time. You know what I mean). The only sensible explanation would be that he is not Elia's son at all? That he is Rhaegar's son with a woman with much fairer features than Elia? And this is where I leave the ground of more or less reasonable musings about genetics and go into my crazy theory: Could it have been Ashara Dayne who was one of Elia's companions in King's Landing? I know she also has dark hair but the Daynes in general are much lighter skinned etc. than the Martell's. She even has the purple eyes.. would this make sense? Perhaps Elia (who is described as frail and sickly in the books) could not have more children after Rhaenys was born and so she, Rhaegar and Ashara decided that Ashara would have the baby but then pass it off as Elia's? I do realize that it seems incredibly far-fetched I'm just desperately trying to find an explanation of (baby and adult) Aegon's hair- and eye color. Also, if we assume that R+L=J, then that is another indication that the Targaryen genes are not so special that they can be dominant when they should be recessive as Jon has dark hair and (rather) dark eyes. Clearly Lyanna's genes "won" here (as they should). I do realize that even if Aegon is not Elia's son he is still Rhaegar's son and a Targaryen and thus not a complete fake. He is just not 100% what people assume him to be - and never was. What do you think? How come Aegon has silver hair and purple eyes? can someone please explain this to me? Do we know what the parents of Oberyn, Doran and Elia looked like? Was one of them blond? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 His hair and eye colour can be explained if it turns out he is descended from the Blackfyre and/or Brightflame line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 well but would that then apply to baby Aegon too? because I read somewhere (I really think that it was his wiki page) that (baby) Aegon had Targaryen coloring while Rhaenys took after her mother and looked like a Martell. My problem is that I can't understand how baby Aegon (not Young Griff) could have purple eyes and silver hair being Elia's son? How is that possible? When I read the books I assumed that baby Aegon was dark haired and -eyed, as his mother's genes are dominant. So when this silver-haired and purple eyed Young Griff came along I was like seriously? of course he's not the real Aegon! But as I explained above, it turns out that already baby Aegon is described as looking like a Targaryen.. This is what lead me to believe that already baby Aegon was not Elia's son but Rhaegar's son with another woman. So my problem is not really wether Young Griff is Aegon or not but how it is possible that baby Aegon looked the way he did. Or does this whole Blackfyre theory assume that already baby Aegon was not who people think he was? I'm sorry but I'm just really confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto2 Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Okay, really now people. How many people are Ashara supposed to have been romantically involved with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceluby Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Not all Targs have white hair and the reason 'the seed is strong' doesn't apply is because neither the Martells or Targs have the kind of dominant genes that the Baratheons have had through the centuries. Aegon could have white hair and purple eyes even if the mother was dark. It's like red-heads here, sometimes you have a red-headed child, sometimes they have other dominant genes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Hugh Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think you are 1/2 right. I think Aegon is the child of Ashara Dayne and Mad King Aryes. No i don't think she was a willing participant. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 I think you are 1/2 right. I think Aegon is the child of Ashara Dayne and Mad King Aryes. No i don't think she was a willing participant. :( But why would Rhaegar and Elia pass him off as their own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Not all Targs have white hair and the reason 'the seed is strong' doesn't apply is because neither the Martells or Targs have the kind of dominant genes that the Baratheons have had through the centuries. Aegon could have white hair and purple eyes even if the mother was dark. It's like red-heads here, sometimes you have a red-headed child, sometimes they have other dominant genes. Thanks for your answer! I guess that makes sense. Still, it would imply that Elia has a recessive blond gene.. So I come back to my earlier question: Are there any blond Martells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Oh and I should probably also mention that I got the idea that Ashara might be the mother from this email: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040 At least we know that she was in King's Landing with Elia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Hugh Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 But why would Rhaegar and Elia pass him off as their own? Well 1) just because thats who Aegon thinks he is Elia dn Rheagars son...doesn't make it so. 2) Elia might have lost her child....and her best friend and handmaiden offered an alternative. Which might have appeased Rheagar and brought his interest back to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Well 1) just because thats who Aegon thinks he is Elia dn Rheagars son...doesn't make it so. 2) Elia might have lost her child....and her best friend and handmaiden offered an alternative. Which might have appeased Rheagar and brought his interest back to her. I'm talking about baby Aegon not Young Griff. I don't think baby Aegon had any opinion on who his parents were :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Also, I just remembered that one of the Sand Snakes is blond. So Oberyn carried a recessive blond gene and most probably Elia too. Turns out I got hung up on a complete non-issue. Too bad, I kinda liked my theory :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Hugh Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I'm talking about baby Aegon not Young Griff. I don't think baby Aegon had any opinion on who his parents were :) Then #2 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Then #2 :) okay ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 But why would Rhaegar and Elia pass him off as their own? To ensure that their line was safe if KL was ever sacked...as a precautionary measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Rhaenys (his first child with Elia) is said to have taken after her Dornish mother, and Jon (assuming he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna) takes after his mother in that department. Baelor Breakspear (the first child of Daeron II and Myriah Martell) is also, IIRC, said to have taken after the dark hair of his mother. And I think that Aegor "Bittersteel" Rivers' dark hair is also likely to turn out to have taken after his mother. I personally think a first child of Rhaegar and Ashara would have Ashara's darker hair color, as in the cases of Rhaenys, Jon, Baelor, and, IMO, likely Bittersteel. If you are suggesting that both Rhaenys and Aegon were children of Rhaegar and Ashara I think he would be more likely to have the Targ hair color on the looks front, but I don't think the pregnancies of Elia and the toll the births took on Elia can be explained away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thendel Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Thanks for your answer! I guess that makes sense. Still, it would imply that Elia has a recessive blond gene.. So I come back to my earlier question: Are there any blond Martells? If you're looking for a connection, Elia and her brothers are descendants of Daenerys Targaeryen, sister to Daeron II who ruled around 100 years before the events of ASoIaF. Combine that with the existence of fair-haired Dornish vassals that might have married into House Martell (such as House Dayne), and you've got the groundwork for why some Martells would have the recessive gene for fair colouring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhana Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 If you're looking for a connection, Elia and her brothers are descendants of Daenerys Targaeryen, sister to Daeron II who ruled around 100 years before the events of ASoIaF. Combine that with the existence of fair-haired Dornish vassals that might have married into House Martell (such as House Dayne), and you've got the groundwork for why some Martells would have the recessive gene for fair colouring. thank you for the info! that is exactly what I was looking for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Carmichael Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 There's no reason he couldn't be, however, I don't think Arthur would have been willing to help Rhaegar out on his little escapade if the prince had knocked Ashara up. On the other hand, if Aerys banged her it may have given Arthur some motivation to help Rhaegar out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hard Hugh Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 There's no reason he couldn't be, however, I don't think Arthur would have been willing to help Rhaegar out on his little escapade if the prince had knocked Ashara up. On the other hand, if Aerys banged her it may have given Arthur some motivation to help Rhaegar out. This was my thought as well. Especially if she was unwilling. It might be the final straw to push the greatest of the Kingsgaurd away from the King and to the Prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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