GOODKIND IX - Killer Queen

[Agulla]

So they manage to move into enemy territory without being detected and there, operating without supplies and without the support of the local population they manage to assault cities, defeat the defenders, kill all enemy soldiers, burn the entire cities to the ground, burn all the fields around them, behead all the corpses, impale their heads and then move on to the next target.

Wonderful. Now it's clear that Terry Goodkind knows as much of strategy and military history as he knows about swordfighting.

But our ubermench commandos are not done with this. They also have some time to spare to work as thought police:

“The attackers made no move to slaughter the escaping refugees if they offered no armed resistance, but they made it quite clear to the fleeing people that they intended to lay waste to all of the Old World and anyone who supports the Imperial Order.

“The soldiers told the people that it is the Order and their beliefs that has brought this strife upon them, and who will bring them and their land to ruin. The soldiers vowed that they would haunt the people of the Old World into their graves and then into the darkest corners of the underworld if they did not give up the teaching of the Order and their belligerent ways that flowed from those teachings.â€

That's nice. They don't kill civilians unless those civilians try to resist them and defend their homes. More than this, they tell the civilians to abandon their beliefs or they will keep destroying everything.

Just imagine this the other way around. But then it would be evil, the difference would be who would be doing it.

[Perin Stone]

The Mock Debate between Robert Jordan, George R. R. Martin, and Terry Goodkind (Round 1)

That's awesome:

RJ: I read your last book too, Terry. Man, talk about having the latest installment of a monolithic series totally fail to advance any of the plotlines longtime fans were dying to see develop! I’d never do anything like that!

[TG and GRRM gape. TG finally breaks the silence.]

So let me get this straight. The Dharan army split up into many small group and one of these groups was able to sneak up on a large city (through enemy territory) with thousands of troops guarding it and kill them all....

[MinDonner]

It's because they fight as individuals, not as one combined unit. Those IO troops work as a team, see, like one giant centipede, always doing soul-destroying things like not getting in each other's way, and working together. That's why they are inferior to the D'Haran Individualists, who ignore their mates and slash their way (instantly) through the evil commie scum.

What?

[Moosicus]

So let me get this straight. The Dharan army split up into many small group and one of these groups was able to sneak up on a large city (through enemy territory) with thousands of troops guarding it and kill them all....

Exactly. Even with a few hundred thousand soldiers (I'm guessing at this point) it seems like an impossible task. Considering what Agulla has already stated and the sheer vastness of the Old World. Of course, once again time and space have absolutely no meaning in this world. It certainly doesn't seem to me that the D'Haran soldiers would have time to even reach the Old World yet, much less burn 35-40 cities to the ground, cut down orchards, burn crops and salt fields. But why should anything make sense?

[Perin Stone]

How much time has passed in the series since WFR? A year? 5? 10?

[Maid Sansa]

I'm curious about where they got all the salt for the fields.

[MinDonner]

I'm curious about where they got all the salt for the fields.

Ah, that'd be the same place that Richard got all his knowledge about algebra, and where all those deus ex machinas come from. Think of it like Tom the Cat reaching off-screen and getting a stick of dynamite.

[Moosicus]

How much time has passed in the series since WFR? A year? 5? 10?

Somewhere inbetween, six or seven maybe. It never really says, but Violet was about eight or nine in WFR, and now she's about fifteen? Though no ones age is ever given specifically either.

I'm curious about where they got all the salt for the fields.

Travelling salt salesman. The Old World is full of them.

[Perin Stone]

Somewhere inbetween, six or seven maybe. It never really says, but Violet was about eight or nine in WFR, and now she's about fifteen? Though no ones age is ever given specifically either.

I didn't think enough had happened to justify that long a period. I figured 1-2 years. I thought maybe "Six" used her magic to make Violet age faster.

[MinDonner]

Travelling salt salesman. The Old World is full of them.

Now, you say that, and it's probably a joke, but with TG (BBNC)'s approach to "world-building" it might even be true...

[Dornishman]

Ugh. This QotD is full of stupidity and disgusting ethics. So, nothing new, really, but that is one of the "highlights" again.

So a whole city was razed, all inhabitants, and that is something GOOD?

And, mroeover, indeed a band of unsupported rubble could destroy an apaprently well-guarded garission city? If the New-Worlders can do that, why had they problems with the invasion of the Imperial Order in the first place???

“No, Excellency, it is not insurrectionists – although they are causing trouble as well, led by one called the blacksmith. Too many places have been attacked for it to be the doings of insurrectionists.â€

Shouldnt Emperor Jagang, if he knows about the insurrection, also know about the leader? :/

[Moosicus]

Now, you say that, and it's probably a joke, but with TG (BBNC)'s approach to "world-building" it might even be true...

It's just like the Simpsons. Whenever Homer wants a hotdog, whether he's in a hospital or at a funeral, the guy with the hotdog cart shows up. So its probably the same with the D'Haran forces. They just finish massacring the locals and burning their fields to the ground, when one of them says "Boy, I wish we had some salt for these fields." then the guy with the saltcart shows up. "Salt for sale. Get your salt here!" Then they kill the salesman, put his head on a stake, and steal his salt.

[Zadok]

I still don't understand how the IO troops that invited Richard to join their softball team don't realize who he is. Even if they didn't have an exact description of him, is stretching to steal a sword and slaughtering troops something that alot of people can do? Does Goodkind ever offer any explanation for why they don't realize it's Richard?

About the salt, remember, Goodkind is not interested how the gun works, he's interested how those characters react. Goodkind has basically declared that any kind of rules or consistency in the story get thrown out the window in the face of interesting character reactions. I guess this is the Goodkind equivalent of "a wizard did it".

[Moosicus]

Ugh. This QotD is full of stupidity and disgusting ethics. So, nothing new, really, but that is one of the "highlights" again.

So a whole city was razed, all inhabitants, and that is something GOOD?

And, mroeover, indeed a band of unsupported rubble could destroy an apaprently well-guarded garission city? If the New-Worlders can do that, why had they problems with the invasion of the Imperial Order in the first place???

Shouldnt Emperor Jagang, if he knows about the insurrection, also know about the leader? :/

--Dornishman

You've got your morality all bass-ackwards. By your twisted standards, good people are defined by their actions, that doing good things is what makes you good in the first place. This is absurd. The actions of the D'Harans are inherently good because they are good people, and are led by a true paragon of virtue. This paragon (Dick) is truly a moral person, therefore everything he does, or commands to be done in his name, must be moral. Why is this so hard to figure out? I recommend snacking on some moral celery sticks, with no peanut butter or cheez whiz, just pure moral celery.

edited for grammar.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

I don't think I like the travelling saltsman explanation...though, he probably would be wearing travelling pants

I prefer to think, that in the night, the D'Harans set fire to all of the buildings. Then, when people were running out and the D'Harans were "making it clear" to the fleeing masses (what, with like bullhorns or billboards?) that only resisters would be killed, and the garrisons of soldiers and Brothers were apparently doing nothing but watching all of this happening and waiting to be burned and have their heads staked, the D'Harans also grabbed every individual refugee, and collected their tears of sorrow into several large basins.

Then, after leisurely slaughtering their foes (who pretty much have to outnumber/outgun them with sorcery), they use the tears of the innocent to salt the fields. And then do the whole headstaking thing, all of which takes a lot of time I assume, but no rush! It all happened in one night, too!

[Moosicus]

Maybe the soldiers have some sculpters among them who can copy Dick's style. They quickly make some big statues representing life in all its glory, then people fall down on their knees weeping for joy and the tears are collected that way. Or maybe the Old World is littered with salt mines. Or, just before burning down a house, somebody runs in and grabs all the salt shakers. There are a million ways to get vast amounts of salt at a moments notice.

[MinDonner]

Salt-shakers is probably right. That way, they can ration out the salt effectively when they're sprinkling it over all the enemy's fields, and the rubble of the destroyed cities. Obviously, when you're in the middle of an enemy country having just had a huge battle against overwhelming odds followed by some light corpse-butchery, it's nice to relax afterwards with a stroll through the countryside covering the ground with salt. After all, what else would they be doing?

[niamh]

Especially in D'hara whose people have been landlocked for at least 2 generations. Yeah, perfect sense. In fact, D'hara shouldn't even know what salt is.

I repeat, those books are a Wizard's first rule experiment on unsuspecting morons.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

Yes, there could be multiple explanations...the only reason I am opposed to the travelling saltsman is that:

1) The IO wouldn't allow anyone enough individuality to sell salt: he would have to be an Imperial salt dispenser, giving it away to the filthy socialist hords.

2) Any travelling anything in the IO probably would have been raped/castrated long ago. That's what happens to members of the non-collective, to those filthy individuals.

[Moosicus]

It always drives me nuts that there is no sense of distance in these books. Terry (BBNC) says he isn't a "world builder", and that much is bloody obvious, but just some statement like "the Old World is as big as...(some real world place)" just to get some perspective. But of course that would force Terry (BBNC) to make sense. In one of the books, IIRC, they make a size comparison (I know what you're thinking and you should be ashamed) between the Old World and the New, and I think it would work out to: New World is to Old World as New York State is to the U.S. Something like that, just to show how big the Old World is in comparison. But thats it.