Will the real Aegon please stand up?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Yes, but you're proving my point. It's an assumption, not a fact. But it's the only thing we got.

No you are wrong. Again in those books bed of blood means childbirth.

Re: the woman was been said that it was Elia at a SSM - waiting on source.

Funny how you didn't noticed what it was written before this.

Again Rhaegar was dead at the time of Jon's birth.

[The Fresh PtwP]

Wasn't Rhaegar a little sick too from a common disease called Warhammertochestitis...I hear it's fatal and many combatants on the Trident died of it that day.

As for the Ice and Fire thing, ask Mel prophecies can be pretty tricky these days. Or maybe he's right and Aegon actually has a shot to do some real good.

[Starspear]

It's actually pretty damn simple arithmetic. Dany was born nine months after her mother left for Dragonstone. Aerys raped Rhaella the night he burned Chelsted, who was his second-to-last Hand. The last Hand only lasted for two weeks before the city was sacked. So, Dany was born about nine months after the Sack. GRRM has said that Jon is 8-9 months older than Dany. Meaning that he was born at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after. The Trident occurred shortly before the Sack, yes, but still before it. If Jon's birth lines up with the Sack up to a month after, then yes...

It's possible that Rhaegar changed his mind, got it wrong, or failed to grasp what role "ice and fire" might actually play in the whole thing. It might not have occurred to him at first that "ice and fire" might be actual components in his kid's genetic makeup.

Key word: IF - there is wiggle room; the time is close enough. The time differences in birth between Jon and Daenerys ambiguous enough as well.

And hence Rhaegar comes off as shallow and insipid for someone described as exceedingly intelligent.

Rhaegar Targaryen: reads a prophecy; automatically assumes he is part of it; makes a baby with Elia and immediately says his son's song is of Ice and Fire (because of prophecy). Captain Fantasy Emo.

[Starspear]

No you are wrong. Again in those books bed of blood means childbirth.

Funny how you didn't noticed what it was written before this.

Really. Who's the authority? Or at least show me more than one passage where the phrase bed of blood consistently means childbirth.

Funny how you didn't noticed what it was written before this - wtf does this mean? Can't even understand. Please clarify.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Key word: IF - there is wiggle room; the time is close enough. The time differences in birth between Jon and Daenerys ambiguous enough as well

I'm sorry but what if are you talking about? The information on the birth dates comes directly from the author. Dany's birth nine months after the evacuation is in the books, and Jon being 8-9 months older than she is comes from one of GRRM's Q&As. I'm actually trying to find the SSM now, but they're sorted by date and not topic, which makes trying to find anything useful in them like wading through molasses. If someone can find it and post it, more power to them.

[Starspear]

I'm sorry but what if are you talking about? The information on the birth dates comes directly from the author. Dany's birth nine months after the evacuation is in the books, and Jon being 8-9 months older than she is comes from one of GRRM's Q&As. I'm actually trying to find the SSM now, but they're sorted by date and not topic, which makes trying to find anything useful in them like wading through molasses. If someone can find it and post it, more power to them.

And any timeline by month would be appreciated.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Really. Who's the authority? Or at least show me more than one passage where the phrase bed of blood consistently means childbirth.

she knows the secrets of the bloody bed

Funny how you didn't noticed what it was written before this - wtf does this mean? Can't even understand. Please clarify.

I said iirc.

[Starspear]

I'm sorry but what if are you talking about? The information on the birth dates comes directly from the author. Dany's birth nine months after the evacuation is in the books, and Jon being 8-9 months older than she is comes from one of GRRM's Q&As. I'm actually trying to find the SSM now, but they're sorted by date and not topic, which makes trying to find anything useful in them like wading through molasses. If someone can find it and post it, more power to them.

Here, I found it: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040

Will be looking into. More to follow.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

And any timeline by month would be appreciated.

I've already given you that. Dany was born about nine months after the Sack. Jon is 8-9 months older than she is, putting his birth at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after. That is the window for his birth. Because the window for his birth postdates the Trident, and Rhaegar died at the Trident, Rhaegar was already dead at the time of Jon's birth. He cannot have been there to see baby Jon, because he was dead by the time Jon was born.

I am not sure how else to explain this. I'm sorry that it nukes your idea that the baby in the vision was Jon, but ... get over it?

[Starspear]

she knows the secrets of the bloody bed

I said iirc.

Explain it in francais if you prefer. Might be easier to comprendre.

[Maester Pedant]

Lyanna died of a fever, it certainly wasn't childbirth. Ned's POV confirms that much

Otherwise not bad

I definitely think there is room for Lyanna to have been the one in the bed and not Elia as what you say makes a deal of sense

HOWEVER

That means Rhaegar named two of his sons Aegon >.>

There's a condition called puerperal fever that affects women after giving birth. It can be fatal. I always assumed this was what killed Lyanna.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Explain it in francais if you prefer. Might be easier to comprendre.

How more clear I can make it? Bed of blood/bloody bed is a euphemism for childbirth. Do you atually have any passage of that expression used for something else?

But yet again for 3rd time I think, how exactly Rhaegar could be there since at the time of Jon's birth he was dead?

[Starspear]

I've already given you that. Dany was born about nine months after the Sack. Jon is 8-9 months older than she is, putting his birth at about the time of the Sack, up to a month after. That is the window for his birth. Because the window for his birth postdates the Trident, and Rhaegar died at the Trident, Rhaegar was already dead at the time of Jon's birth. He cannot have been there to see baby Jon, because he was dead by the time Jon was born.

I am not sure how else to explain this. I'm sorry that it nukes your idea that the baby in the vision was Jon, but ... get over it?

It's nice that you take pleasure in your sass. If you were a tad less sassy, you would have realized that I found the SSM you were referring to and posted it.

I don't shoot down anything and I don't assume anything without 100% of due diligence.

I'm not here to make friends either.

I'll be looking into. If it is legitimately FUBAR (as per my post #1) - I will scratch this theory completely. Sass doesn't mean crap.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's nice that you take pleasure in your sass. If you were a tad less sassy, you would have realized that I found the SSM you were referring to and posted it.

I don't shoot down anything and I don't assume anything without 100% of due diligence.

I'm not here to make friends either.

I'll be looking into. If it is legitimately FUBAR (as per my post #1) - I will scratch this theory completely. Sass doesn't mean crap.

I hate repeating myself and being asked to give information that I've already provided. I'm not a time traveler. And neither, for that matter, was Rhaegar.

[Starspear]

From GRRM (http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1040):

"All of which is a long winded way of saying, no, Jon was not born "more than 1 year" before Dany... probably closer to eight or nine months OR [my capitalization] thereabouts."

As per my post #53... will be looking into to see variables and whether potential overlap. There is wiggle room here.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

We know from this e-mail that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing (I: 25). This would place Jon’s birth within one month, give or take, of the Sack. As we know the war lasts “close” to a year which is often just referred to as a “year” (I: 96, 233), suggesting 10-11 months is likelier than 9 months. Given this, his conception seems to have been between 1-3 months into the war. Interestingly, this contradicts suggestions from Catelyn and Ned that Jon was concieved some time after Robb’s conception (in itself an event taking place several months into the war), so either GRRM is mistaken or he has accidentally clarified a piece of information which was intended to be obfuscated in the series (I: 54, 92). Our own view is that the latter is the case, as GRRM is rather precise about the relative birthdates in a way that seems too absolute to be a random error.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_are_Jon_Snows_parents/

So Rhaegar died at the time of Rhaegar's death.

[Starspear]

There's a condition called puerperal fever that affects women after giving birth. It can be fatal. I always assumed this was what killed Lyanna.

Yes, so did I and frankly everyone else because it is sensible.

Regardless of that - it is still an assumption.

[Starspear]

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_are_Jon_Snows_parents/

So Rhaegar died at the time of Rhaegar's death.

You're late to the game. I already posted the relevant SSM (which is a link within the link of what you posted).

[Jon's Queen Consort]

You're late to the game. I already posted the relevant SSM (which is a link within the link of what you posted).

And? We know that Jon was born at the time of the Sack when Rhaegar was already dead.

[Starspear]

Trivial note from GRRM:

I do intend to publish a timeline as an appendix in one or other of the later volumes, but even when I do, I am not certain I'm going to start detailing things down to months and days. With such a huge cast of characters, just keeping track of the =years= drives me half mad sometimes. Not to mention the colors of everybody's eyes.

I'm not saying anything with this quote other than the possibility of errors within GRRM own timelines. Above quote just for reader information.