TheCrannogDweller Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 So making Lysa marry a man that she didn't wanted is better? Yes, yes it was. I am calling it :bs: Call it whatever you want. It's my opinion - and I'm basing it on facts from the books. So Tywin is a grey character and not a moster right? Hoster being a monster is him being grey and Tywin being a moster is a monster? No. There is nothing grey about the gang rape of Tysha or the burning of the Riverlands. Also, if Hoster making Lysa aborting her child was ok why Robert sending an assassin to Dany wasn't? You know, the moment you try to compare an abortion to an assassination attempt, you start losing a lot of your credibility. Do you think Hoster's men never raped anybody? Not on his orders they didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Do you think Hoster's men never raped anybody?That's a completely different thing. It would be like Hoster ORDERING his men to rape Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Tywin isn't morally grey, just like Gregor, Amory Lorch, Vargo Hoat, and Ramsay aren't. Sometimes it's black and white. So Tywin being a monster means that he is black and Hoster being a monster means that he is a hard/grey man? lol ok double standards' level 11/10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Do you think Hoster's men never raped anybody?I never would think Hoster would give a direct order to his men to rape someone, and anyone who thinks differently is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 So Tywin being a monster means that he is black and Hoster being a monster means that he is a hard/grey man? lol ok double standards' level 11/10.I don't think Hoster is a monster (not even close), just like most readers do. So, no double standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I never would think Hoster would give a direct order to his men to rape someone, and anyone who thinks differently is wrong. We don't know that much about Hoster, and to be fair Littlefinger isn't a dwarf that "killed" Hoster's wife in birth. I'm not saying Tywin's hatred for Tyrion is justified but I think a lot of lords would feel the same way as Tywin, though not so extremely. I think Tywin and Hoster would react almost the same if each was put in the others shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I don't think Hoster is a monster (not even close), just like most readers do. So, no double standard. How exactly killing a family of highborns is worst than killing a village of smallfolks exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 We don't know that much about Hoster, and to be fair Littlefinger isn't a dwarf that "killed" Hoster's wife in birth. I'm not saying Tywin's hatred for Tyrion is justified but I think a lot of lords would feel the same way as Tywin, though not so extremely.Which is what makes Tywin a monster!! And one example of why Hoster isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Also, if Hoster making Lysa aborting her child was ok why Robert sending an assassin to Dany wasn't?Who's talking about "ok"s? Did all your "arguments" serve only to "lead" us to this impossible logic? Robert sent an assassin to Dany because "omg, maybe she might come and kill us with an horde of savages!!!". Three years and she's not even close to the shore. Also, his reasons are that he hated Rhaegar. Lysa didn't "possible" slept with LF. She did, taking advance of Littlefinger, a guy who wasn't noble, rich, nor was meant to bring anything positive for her and was not even remotely interested on her. They were in war, he needed swords. There was not "ok" here: Lysa was as unhappy with Jon Arryn as LF would have been with him. But Hoster isn't LF's father: he couldn't force him to anything. Also, both regretted their decisions when they were dying, so it's worthless to keep discussing it: they both thing they could have done differently, only that Hoster couldn't reverse it anymore. This is not to prove who was the more likeable baby killer. We already had a thread glorifying MMD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingelheim Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How exactly killing a family of highborns is worst than killing a village of smallfolks exactly? So...is Robb a monster? A lot of Westermen paid for Tywin's sins. That makes Robb a monster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How exactly killing a family of highborns is worst than killing a village of smallfolks exactly? "Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." You're starting to sound eerily Tywin-esque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Which is what makes Tywin a monster!! And one example of why Hoster isn't. Hoster hasn't had to endure the shit Tywin has, Hoster's father wasn't a notorious weakling, Hoster wasn't having to put down rebellious lords before he even turned 20, Hoster didn't have a dwarf son kill the woman he loved during birth(in Tywin and Cersei's eyes), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 How exactly killing a family of highborns is worst than killing a village of smallfolks exactly?I highly doubt Hoster killed the entire village... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hoster hasn't had to endure the shit Tywin has, Hoster's father wasn't a notorious weakling, Hoster wasn't having to put down rebellious lords before he even turned 20, Hoster didn't have a dwarf son kill the woman he loved during birth(in Tywin and Cersei's eyes), etc.Lol, not even gonna address this, nice try at trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 snip Actually Hoster regretted it which meant nothing when Robert tried to fix it. "Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." You're starting to sound eerily Tywin-esque. :bs: You still failed to answer me. Why a village doesn't deserve as much as a highborn family? I highly doubt Hoster killed the entire village... So now you are going against what we know from the books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Lol, not even gonna address this, nice try at trolling. I'm serious, if Hoster had been born in Tywin's shoes he would be an even bigger asshole than he seems to be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hoster hasn't had to endure the shit Tywin has, Hoster's father wasn't a notorious weakling, Hoster wasn't having to put down rebellious lords before he even turned 20, Hoster didn't have a dwarf son kill the woman he loved during birth(in Tywin and Cersei's eyes), etc. Oh, poor Tywin, born with a golden spoon in his mouth - and as the heir of the richest man in the Kingdoms. Oh, poor Tywin, having to go to war because the son he hated was arrested. Oh, poor Tywin, having to order the gang rape of a common girl because she had the audacity to love his dwarf son. Oh, poor, poor Tywin... Nobody denies that Tywin had a tough childhood, but seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Hoster hasn't had to endure the shit Tywin has, Hoster's father wasn't a notorious weakling, Hoster wasn't having to put down rebellious lords before he even turned 20, Hoster didn't have a dwarf son kill the woman he loved during birth(in Tywin and Cersei's eyes), etc. Tywin's father being a weakling was something that Tywin took personal issue with because he was a prideful asshole. Putting down rebellious lords probably wasn't that hard. Two houses vs. the rest of the Westerlands? Sounds like an easy win to me. And since they all seemed to have been killed in their castles, it didn't seem like it was much of a fight. Hoster's wife died in childbirth too, and I'm sure he loved her too. That Tyrion is a dwarf is only a problem because, once again, Tywin is a prideful asshole. Tyrion being a dwarf is only a problem because Tywin thinks its a problem. Kevan, Gerion, Tygett and Genna had absolutely no problem with Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Actually Hoster regretted it which meant nothing when Robert tried to fix it. :bs: You still failed to answer me. Why a village doesn't deserve as much as a highborn family? So now you are going against what we know from the books?Well, some author, not sure which one, said there are unreliable narrators, I would venture to guess that applies to other characters as well. Plus, wasn't Ned with Hoster at the time? I go against my earlier statement, and say Ned wouldn't have let that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Well, some author, not sure which one, said there are unreliable narrators, I would venture to guess that applies to other characters as well. Plus, wasn't Ned with Hoster at the time? I go against my earlier statement, and say Ned wouldn't have let that happen. Only it wasn't said by a PoV, it was said by some who lived there. But of course they knew nothing and no Ned wasn't always with Hoster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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