Chatty Duelist Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Kevan ordered genocide?I need a re-read. Not a genocide per se, but Kevan and Tywin worked together, they scorched the Riverlands, killing thousands in the opening days of the war and leaving the survivors without food for the coming winter, they organized the Red Wedding together etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Not a genocide per se, but Kevan and Tywin worked together, they scorched the Riverlands, killing thousands in the opening days of the war and leaving the survivors without food for the coming winter, they organized the Red Wedding together etc etc.Oh, ok. Sure, horrible stuff. In some ways, though, not atypical of medieval warfare. But no less evil for all that.Genocide is a whole other level, though, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Kevan. Haha, ok you must realize that is a complete fabrication, statements like that do nothing to help your cause here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 In some ways it can. In the ways it can't, Jon Con can. And the professional crew of lifetime soldiers behind him. Only Aegon seems determined to ignore JonCon when he demands to lead the assault on Storm's End himself.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chatty Duelist Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Only Aegon seems determined to ignore JonCon when he demands to lead the assault on Storm's End himself.. Wat. I don't remember Jon saying anything against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Wat. I don't remember Jon saying anything against it.Jon remarks that Aegon is not the same as Young Griff. The chapter ends with Aegon saying that HE will lead the attack on Storm's End. We don't gwt JonCon's reactionUntested 16/17 year old boy or tried and tested battle commander? I know which I would pick for an assault against one of the most formidable.castles in Westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Haha, ok you must realize that is a complete fabrication, statements like that do nothing to help your cause here. So Kevan didn't aid Tywin in the the organized murder of a people because where they live? Riiight, I am the one fabricating information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmarshal Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jon remarks that Aegon is not the same as Young Griff. The chapter ends with Aegon saying that HE will lead the attack on Storm's End. We don't gwt JonCon's reactionUntested 16/17 year old boy or tried and tested battle commander? I know which I would pick for an assault against one of the most formidable.castles in WesterosSo you believe Aegon should be a coward and let Jon do all his fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 So you believe Aegon should be a coward and let Jon do all his fighting.Well since the post I am referring to said Aegon has Varys and JonCon as the people to win his battles...And yes, he should defer to someone with more experience. Its common.sense that you listen to someone with more experience than you. Its not.cowardly, its practical and logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanna Stormborn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 So Kevan didn't aid Tywin in the the organized murder of a people because where they live? Riiight, I am the one fabricating information. I still have no idea what you are talking about, bring in some quotes from the books, please show us where Kevan ordered a genocide..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Jon remarks that Aegon is not the same as Young Griff. The chapter ends with Aegon saying that HE will lead the attack on Storm's End. We don't gwt JonCon's reactionUntested 16/17 year old boy or tried and tested battle commander? I know which I would pick for an assault against one of the most formidable.castles in WesterosLet the boy win his spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Let the boy win his spurs.There is a time and a place. The taking of one of the most formidable castles in Westeros is not the place or time.People critique Dany saying that being a Queen is not a game. Well war is no game either, Aegon shouldn't be "earning his spurs" by trying to take Storms End. That is something experienced commanders should deal with. Its common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 There is a time and a place. The taking of one of the most formidable castles in Westeros is not the place or time.People critique Dany saying that being a Queen is not a game. Well war is no game either, Aegon shouldn't be "earning his spurs" by trying to take Storms End. That is something experienced commanders should deal with. Its common senseWell, the original took place at a pretty dangerous time and place, too.But more to the point, there's leading and there's leading. Jon Con is still the guy who planned it, and I'm sure will be there to make sure things work, but Aegon wants and needs to actually lead the attack, and Jon Con sees the wisdom in that, presumably through the lens of all that experience he's had.Cunning old campaigner helping plan and execute alongside the courageous young king who leads the attack. Sounds like a working gameplan, no? Actually...doesn't it also sound familiar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 There is a time and a place. The taking of one of the most formidable castles in Westeros is not the place or time.People critique Dany saying that being a Queen is not a game. Well war is no game either, Aegon shouldn't be "earning his spurs" by trying to take Storms End. That is something experienced commanders should deal with. Its common senseI agree. But i'm thinking him "commanding" is not quite as literal as all that. He's going to have people over his shoulders, watching his moves. I see no problem with him being the one making the commands. He needs to get a feel for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I agree. But i'm thinking him "commanding" is not quite as literal as all that. He's going to have people over his shoulders, watching his moves. I see no problem with him being the one making the commands. He needs to get a feel for it. That's how I'm viewing it. Especially since he is listening to JonCon about the timing of the attack...I'm sure he wouldn't just go blindly charging in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Well, the original took place at a pretty dangerous time and place, too.But more to the point, there's leading and there's leading. Jon Con is still the guy who planned it, and I'm sure will be there to make sure things work, but Aegon wants and needs to actually lead the attack, and Jon Con sees the wisdom in that, presumably through the lens of all that experience he's had.Cunning old campaigner helping plan and execute alongside the courageous young king who leads the attack. Sounds like a working gameplan, no? Actually...doesn't it also sound familiar? Where are you getting that JonCon sees the wisdom.in Aegon's actions? The chapter ends with Aegon's announcement and we only hear about the attack in the Arriane spoiler I took from the chapter that JonCon is not impressed with Aegon's new attitude, qnd much preferred "Young Griff". Aegon seems much more taken by the likes of Rolly - young, bold warriors, but not especially smart or experiencedAs for the last bit...do you mean Robb and Brynden? Sorry, I genuinely dont know what you mean there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chebyshov Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Where are you getting that JonCon sees the wisdom.in Aegon's actions? The chapter ends with Aegon's announcement and we only hear about the attack in the Arriane spoiler I took from the chapter that JonCon is not impressed with Aegon's new attitude, qnd much preferred "Young Griff". Aegon seems much more taken by the likes of Rolly - young, bold warriors, but not especially smart or experiencedAs for the last bit...do you mean Robb and Brynden? Sorry, I genuinely dont know what you mean there “Escort His Grace to my solar,” he commanded. “At once.” Prince Aegon Targaryen was not near as biddable as the boy Young Griff had been, however.The better part of an hour had passed before he finally turned up in the solar, with Duck at his side. “Lord Connington,” he said, “I like your castle.” “Your father’s lands are beautiful,” he said. His silvery hair was blowing in the wind, and his eyes were a deep purple, darker than this boy’s. “As do I, Your Grace. Please, be seated. Ser Rolly, we’ll haveno further need of you for now.” “No, I want Duck to stay.” The prince sat. “We’ve been talking with Strickland and Flowers. They told us about this attack on Storm’s End that you’re planning.” Jon Connington did not let his fury show. “And did Homeless Harry try to persuade you to delay it?” “He did, actually,” the prince said, “but I won’t. Harry’s an old maid, isn’t he? You have the right of it, my lord. I want the attack to go ahead … with one change. I mean to lead it.”He seemed more frustrated with Stickland and Flowers, not Aegon. He just notes that Aegon is not so docile now. I don't know that means JonCon's upset with the attitude...it just means Aegon is becoming a bit of a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I think people are confusinf Jon's thoughts inside the GC tent with Storm's End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I just realised... couldn't be that Aegon want to be there to take Storm's End because that's House Baratheon's settlement and he knows what happened to his father? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twenty of House Goodmen Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I just realised... couldn't be that Aegon want to be there to take Storm's End because that's House Baratheon's settlement and he knows what happened to his father?Capturing Storm's End is a big F U to House Baratheon, so I would think this is his way of getting back at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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