Cersei the useless

[Wmarshal]

No doubt, but Mace can easily match her.

[Fire Eater]

No doubt, but Mace can easily match her.

Only up to certain point. He doesn't have any gold mines to speak of, and can't match her coin for coin.

[sapphire_lion]

Only up to certain point. He doesn't have any gold mines to speak of, and can't match her coin for coin.

Mace has food, which is more precious than gold when winter comes (and winter has come).

[Wmarshal]

Unless she offers CR itself, I don't see how much she can outbid.

[Fire Eater]

Mace has food, which is more precious than gold when winter comes (and winter has come).

Gold can buy food. Mace's lands are also being raided Ironmen, he will be losing bannermen who may likely be reluctant to provide food to him, and KL does get some food from the Cronwlands.

Unless she offers CR itself, I don't see how much she can outbid.

Probably by a significant amount, and there is more gold in CR than HG due to the gold mines.

[sapphire_lion]

Gold can buy food.

Not when there is a shortage.

Mace's lands are also being raided Ironmen, he will be losing bannermen who may likely be reluctant to provide food to him, and KL does get some food from the Cronwlands.

He has a lot more than Cersei has. That will keep people loyal to him. People need food.

[Fire Eater]

Not when there is a shortage.

I don't recall of their being a food shortage across the Narrow Sea.

He has a lot more than Cersei has. That will keep people loyal to him. People need food.

Yet that won't stop people form fighting against him.

[sapphire_lion]

I don't recall of their being a food shortage across the Narrow Sea.

Jaime is wondering how they are going to feed all the people they have in their armies and in their lands. Hard times are coming, and gold is not going to solve all the problems. Pretty soon there is going to be a shortage of food most everywhere.

Yet that won't stop people form fighting against him.

It very well could when they get hungry enough. Let the season roll over the land. In no time, Mace will be able to buy loyalty, armies, and favors with food just as easily, if not more easily, than Cersei will be able to with gold.

Not to mention that Cersei has already defaulted on the Iron Bank, her promises of a big pay day may not be believed by all.

[Fire Eater]

It very well could when they get hungry enough. Let the season roll over the land. In no time, Mace will be able to buy loyalty, armies, and favors with food just as easily, if not more easily, than Cersei will be able to with gold.

Not to mention that Cersei has already defaulted on the Iron Bank, her promises of a big pay day may not be believed by all.

Aegon, Dany and Stannis aren't going to stop fighting him. Lords still have some food available.

Cersei only temporarily suspended repayment, and many men would likely allow their greed overlook that.

[Ser Lepus]

Cercei's beauty has never been an asset to her. Who does she seduces? Lancel, who's 16 and probably terrified of her wrath so he won't dare refuse? One Kettleback, who are agents of Littlefinger and have zero loyalty to her? Taena, who might well be faking it all and is not of any special use to her? Aaaand that's it. She tried on Ned who didn't even entertain the thougth for a second, the notoriously promiscuous Oberyn would rather die than bed her, and Tyrion the ultimate lecherous pervert only remarks her beauty once, when she smiles. Which almost never happens. And now she's bald and sagging all over. She barely had any seductive power before, and now she has none. Compared to Arianne Martell, who made an actually honorable member of the Kingsguard forget his vows? Yeah, Cercei's got nothing.

I kind of disagree. I think those examples just show that she's just as inept with her beauty as she is with power and not that she lacks beauty or sex appeal.

Cersei is probably beautiful, even if her body probably isn't as beautiful at it used to be (she doesn't seem to exercise at all an has given birth to three children). Her problem isn't lack of beauty, but that her method of seduction is probably something like approaching the man she likes and saying: "I'm like a goddess and you are a maggot, utterly unworthy of my attention, but I'm feeling generous and I will allow you to worship me despite being beneath my comptent".

[Wmarshal]

I don't know how her beauty is going to serve her, be it everyone already saw the goods and found them wanting.

[Fire Eater]

I don't know how her beauty is going to serve her, be it everyone already saw the goods and found them wanting.

She can seduce a few lords, but I think her gaining weight from the drinking along with madness will take their toll on her personal appearance like it did Lysa and Aerys.

[A Man Has Said]

Cersei has ambition, personal spy network and the king in his grasp. Lord Oaf lacks ambition and doesen't seem to care much about game of thrones.

She has Varys at least until his plans are fulfilled and she has her beauty/sex appeal(this would be a bigger help if she knew how to use it properly).

Cersei's personal spy network consisted of Pycelle and Varys, who was and always has been supplying information to other powerful people in King's Landing.

But Varys killed Pycelle in the epilogue of ADwD, as well as Kevan. So his loyalty to the Lannisters is definitely a thing of the past.

Cersei's increasing paranoia through AFfC has left her nearly friendless in King's Landing (heck, she had some of her intimate 'friends' tortured to death!) and Varys has effectively blinded her. Kevan relieved her of the Regency, and I don't think the High Septon is going to allow her to take that back. So all she really has is her ambition, and fading beauty. She was putting on weight all through AFfC, and drinking heavily, which can make you look tired and old very quickly.

[sapphire_lion]

Aegon, Dany and Stannis aren't going to stop fighting him. Lords still have some food available.

Dany, Stannis, or Aegon might fight the Tyrells, but not with the ferocity they will have while fighting the Lannisters. And Mace will make alliances with any and all, if it suits him. Honestly, it would be in any future ruler’s interest to amicably win over a House that is so popular and beloved for their ability to feed the realm. That’s another thing Mace has over Cersei.

Cersei only temporarily suspended repayment, and many men would likely allow their greed overlook that.

Tell it to the Braavosi. Anyone who sides with Cersei will be on the opposing side of the Iron Bank as well. And only fools would put themselves on the opposing side of the Iron Bank. I am skeptical of the kind of help Cersei could buy. I doubt it will be any better than the Kettleblacks. In contrast, Mace already has many more friends, and is likely to gain more when hunger comes to Westeros.

[Fire Eater]

Dany, Stannis, or Aegon might fight the Tyrells, but not with the ferocity they will have while fighting the Lannisters. And Mace will make alliances with any and all, if it suits him. Honestly, it would be in any future ruler’s interest to amicably win over a House that is so popular and beloved for their ability to feed the realm. That’s another thing Mace has over Cersei.

Mace is still tied to Tommen through his marriage to Margaery and Loras in Tommen's KG.

Tell it to the Braavosi. Anyone who sides with Cersei will be on the opposing side of the Iron Bank as well. And only fools would put themselves on the opposing side of the Iron Bank. I am skeptical of the kind of help Cersei could buy. I doubt it will be any better than the Kettleblacks. In contrast, Mace already has many more friends, and is likely to gain more when hunger comes to Westeros.

By that token, anyone who sides against Stannis is on the opposing side of the Iron bank as well, which includes most of the realm. The IB's power is not that powerful. She could buy sellswords. Mace's bannermen will abandon him when they join Aegon, likely including Tarly. Mace hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford when it was Tarly's work. Food from the Reach is not going to be a factor in which side the lords join.

[sapphire_lion]

Mace is still tied to Tommen through his marriage to Margaery and Loras in Tommen's KG.

Tommen isn't going to be around for long. The Tyrells will likely jump to the winning side just as quickly as they did before.

By that token, anyone who sides against Stannis is on the opposing side of the Iron bank as well, which includes most of the realm. The IB's power is not that powerful. She could buy sellswords.

The Iron Bank’s purpose is to take down Cersei. They are not overly interested in Stannis becoming King (that's not their main goal), they are interested in making the Lannisters pay. They will fund whoever can get the job done. They are that powerful. And they can easily pay sellswords not to fight for Cersei. Swellswords are not know for their loyality, but they are known for their pragmatism.

Mace's bannermen will abandon him when they join Aegon, likely including Tarly. Mace hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford when it was Tarly's work. Food from the Reach is not going to be a factor in which side the lords join.

Tarly is loyal to Mace. The Tyrells are well liked. What textual evidence do you have to support your claim that the Tyrell bannermen will abandon House Tyrell? And why would they have to when Mace could just as easily form an alliance with Aegon as he did with Tywin?

Food is a huge factor when starvation is around the corner. In a time of scarcity, a House that is known for having a steady food supply will find themselves with many friends vying to win their favor.

[Fire Eater]

Tommen isn't going to be around for long. The Tyrells will likely jump to the winning side just as quickly as they did before.

Not if Cersei keeps Margaery as a hostage, and even if Tommen dies Loras is still in the KG and bound to serve and protect Myrcella.

The Iron Bank’s purpose is to take down Cersei. They are not overly interested in Stannis becoming King (that's not their main goal), they are interested in making the Lannisters pay. They will fund whoever can get the job done. They are that powerful. And they can easily pay sellswords not to fight for Cersei. Swellswords are not know for their loyality, but they are known for their pragmatism.

Their purpose is to get their due, and they are interested in the Iron Throne paying back its debt. Paying sellswords not to fight would be an expensive, and likely unsuccessful operation since they would have to send people to do that, and they would likely be caught by Cersei through Qyburn in ten seconds flat.

Tarly is loyal to Mace. The Tyrells are well liked. What textual evidence do you have to support your claim that the Tyrell bannermen will abandon House Tyrell? And why would they have to when Mace could just as easily form an alliance with Aegon as he did with Tywin?

The Tyrells are well liked? In KL, yes, but I don't see the Tyrells having love comparable to the Starks in the Reach, and there were lords who went against the Tyrells by joining Stannis instead of staying with Mace. I don't think Peake's "friends in the Reach" is for nothing, and many Blackfyre supporters came from the Reach. Aegon II had Oldtown and the Arbor in the first Dance, and I think that may be a clue that the Arbor and Oldtown will side with Aegon. Likely when he helps them deal with the Ironborn, saving Oldtown from an assault by Euron. As Stannis demonstrated, getting rid of Ironborn is a good way to win the support of local lords while Mace didn't do shit to aid his bannermen against the Ironborn. The only time he moved his army from SE was when his daughter was imprisoned.

Mace hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford disregarding Tarly's role, and he gave Brightwater Keep to his son when it would have passed to Tarly's wife.

Aegon would be stealing Mace's bannermen, and Mace would take that as a slight, undermining his credibility.

Food is a huge factor when starvation is around the corner. In a time of scarcity, a House that is known for having a steady food supply will find themselves with many friends vying to win their favor.

If that's true then why are there houses fighting against the Tyrells? Besides, the foo supply hasn't reached critical yet.

[sapphire_lion]

Not if Cersei keeps Margaery as a hostage, and even if Tommen dies Loras is still in the KG and bound to serve and protect Myrcella.

Cersei doesn’t have Marg in her custody. Myrcella is not long for this world (if Maggy can be believed).

Their purpose is to get their due, and they are interested in the Iron Throne paying back its debt. Paying sellswords not to fight would be an expensive, and likely unsuccessful operation since they would have to send people to do that, and they would likely be caught by Cersei through Qyburn in ten seconds flat.

The Iron Bank’s interest in not only to get their due, but to make an example of Cersei. Their brand is at stake. That is why they are willing to fund Stannis. They are sending a message, “You do not default on the Iron Bank.” They are not about to let Cersei’s transgressions go unanswered.

Paying sellswords to turn their cloak is cost effective. It is less expensive and less time consuming than fighting a war. Also, from a sellswords perspective, it's a great deal. They get paid and don’t have to risk their necks.

The Tyrells are well liked? In KL, yes, but I don't see the Tyrells having love comparable to the Starks in the Reach, and there were lords who went against the Tyrells by joining Stannis instead of staying with Mace. I don't think Peake's "friends in the Reach" is for nothing, and many Blackfyre supporters came from the Reach. Aegon II had Oldtown and the Arbor in the first Dance, and I think that may be a clue that the Arbor and Oldtown will side with Aegon. Likely when he helps them deal with the Ironborn, saving Oldtown from an assault by Euron. As Stannis demonstrated, getting rid of Ironborn is a good way to win the support of local lords while Mace didn't do shit to aid his bannermen against the Ironborn. The only time he moved his army from SE was when his daughter was imprisoned.

Mace hogged all the credit for the Battle of Ashford disregarding Tarly's role, and he gave Brightwater Keep to his son when it would have passed to Tarly's wife.

Aegon would be stealing Mace's bannermen, and Mace would take that as a slight, undermining his credibility.

Being popular in KL is a big deal. Whether it’s Stannis, Aegon, or Dany, whoever sits the Iron Throne will need to win over the populace of the city. Befriending a House that is beloved by its people is a great way to achieve such a feat.

Mace’s inability to help with the Ironborn will be blamed on Cersei. Plus, Loras' heroism in his attempt to bring help to the Reach as soon as possible is the stuff songs are made of. Once the Lannisters are done (which will be soon enough), the Tyrells will side with whoever is winning at the time. This is their MO.

Tarly is loyal to Mace. He raced to KL when Marg was taken by the faith. He is on Team Tyrell.

Besides, the foo supply hasn't reached critical yet.

Winter has come while several parts of the realm were too busy fighting a war to prepare appropriately. The food supply will reach critical levels. This will be a game changer. And it will be in House Tyrell’s benefit, as they have a great supply of food comparatively. Any ruler interested in feeding the realm will understand that they are better off ruling with House Tyrell’s cooperation.

BTW, I don’t believe everything will go swimmingly for the Tyrell’s. But I do believe they are better off than the Lannisters. They have more support. They have something to offer a new regime.

The Lannisters (lead by Cersei) are doomed. The Tyrells can recover if they play their cards right.

[Fire Eater]

Cersei doesn’t have Marg in her custody. Myrcella is not long for this world (if Maggy can be believed).

The Iron Bank’s interest in not only to get their due, but to make an example of Cersei. Their brand is at stake. That is why they are willing to fund Stannis. They are sending a message, “You do not default on the Iron Bank.” They are not about to let Cersei’s transgressions go unanswered.

Paying sellswords to turn their cloak is cost effective. It is less expensive and less time consuming than fighting a war. Also, from a sellswords perspective, it's a great deal. They get paid and don’t have to risk their necks.

Except you said Tommen will die, and Cersei would likely resort to drastic measures. Myrcella likely won't die until ADoS.

Except by funding Stannis they are already sending that message. Sending guys to pay sellswords not to fight is tedious, and would likely accomplish very little. It is adds expense when they simply could have given the money to Stannis to hire sellswords. You also failed to address the anger it would pose to the agents in KL doing that. It just doesn't sound practical.

Being popular in KL is a big deal. Whether it’s Stannis, Aegon, or Dany, whoever sits the Iron Throne will need to win over the populace of the city. Befriending a House that is beloved by its people is a great way to achieve such a feat.

Mace’s inability to help with the Ironborn will be blamed on Cersei. Plus, Loras' heroism in his attempt to bring help to the Reach as soon as possible is the stuff songs are made of. Once the Lannisters are done (which will be soon enough), the Tyrells will side with whoever is winning at the time. This is their MO.

Tarly is loyal to Mace. He raced to KL when Marg was taken by the faith. He is on Team Tyrell.

Except if Aegon and Connington don't seem to be particularly interested in winning the Tyrells.

Loras performed one action that had no direct affect on the Reach. It still doesn't make up for the lack of support the Reach recieved from Cersei and Mace. Cersei would take measures to keep the Tyrells loyal.

Except, he is also proud, and he likely admired Connington. Also, like at the way Tarly treated his sons. From their treatment he would prefer a king like Aegon, who leads his battles to the soft Tommen who likes kittens akin to Sam while other men fight his battles. Mace helped Margaery out as he was not exactly going to join Stannis or Euron anytime soon.

Winter has come while several parts of the realm were too busy fighting a war to prepare appropriately. The food supply will reach critical levels. This will be a game changer. And it will be in House Tyrell’s benefit, as they have a great supply of food comparatively. Any ruler interested in feeding the realm will understand that they are better off ruling with House Tyrell’s cooperation.

Except the Tyrell lands are being raided by Ironmen and likely later Aegon and Dany. Food supply doesn't seem to deter the people fighting them. They can always import form across the Narrow Sea.

The Lannisters (lead by Cersei) are doomed. The Tyrells can recover if they play their cards right.

The Tyrells will take large hit as well, not as large as the Lannisters, but still large.