(Book spoilers) So the Lannister gold has dried up?

[Krutoon]

I guess the Lannisters being broke makes sense, because as I recall Tywin was previously throwing money at King's Landing whenever it was called for, and that must have stopped at some point because the Crown owes the Iron Bank a great deal. I feel like as long as he had the resources, he would have helped fund weddings, tourneys, etc. to help Cersei keep up appearances.

I think y'all are on to something with the show ramping up Braavos. It got mentioned with the Iron Bank and again in Arya-Hound dialogue. I'm sure they're reminding the audience of its importance to get us ready.

[D-Shiznit]

It ties up to Vary's line in season 2, "Power is a trick". He probably knows that Lannister's are broke and was most likely refraning from laughing at Tyrion's ignorance.

[Emperoreddy]

The Lannisters aren't broke..........yet. But they will be if they keep lending money to the crown. They still have their own resources for the moment but the belt-tightening is about to begin and someone else needs to start paying the crown's debts, at least till the Lannisters can find another source of money.

They are running a deficit and the wars are bleeding them dry. They definitely have resources and aren't "broke" yet, but they are in the red and can't sustain their own kingdom AND the crown by themselves any longer. I don't think it really changes that much. Its beginning to show their power is waning, but you also get the impression that prudent financial planning and alliances could head off disaster at the pass (which is exactly what Tywin is doing).

Cercei is just going to drive them off the cliff still.

[It's Not That Littlefinger]

when he said that, i was like "what?" i think it is just to further emphesize the importance of the ib

[Bluecore]

It should also be noted that this entire Iron Bank story line has not been played out in the book. It could in fact be the case that the Lannister mines have ran dry in the books. In fact, I think I remember a passive mention in one of the books, to the effect of "it is rumored that the mines below Casterly Rock still produce gold to this day." That is to say, it would actually be a revealing surprise if the show explicitly said they DID still produce gold.

I'd also like to point out that, in real life, if I am a relatively upper middle class person, but someone owes me a million dollars plus interest, I'd still consider myself very rich. In the case of the Lannister's, the Crown owes them a lot of money, and the obviously have plenty of liquid capital to live a lavish life style. People who make massive investments in hedge funds, who buy government bonds, etc, they still count all of that money as their total net worth even though they might not have access to it.

[Emperoreddy]

when he said that, i was like "what?" i think it is just to further emphesize the importance of the ib

I think that is the main point, but I also don't think it changes much, at least not with Cercei.

If they make the Lannester's broke, but Cercei is kept in the dark THEN she looks like the victim when the IB comes knocking. This way she is well aware of the gold issue so if she was a wise and prudent ruler it would be a top priority to make sure the IB is happy and other revenue sources are coming in. So she will still look like the incompetent, arrogant queen people expect.

[Gneisenau]

Yay more whitewashing of Cersei

[Colonel Green]

It should also be noted that this entire Iron Bank story line has not been played out in the book. It could in fact be the case that the Lannister mines have ran dry in the books.

No, if that were the case, Ser Kevan would have been concerned about that, but he wasn't.

Also, the mines running dry is not something that could be kept secret. There are presumably a lot of mining towns that would have noticed that.

[Fritz West]

Personally, I like the idea. Not just because it symbolizes the demolition of their house, but because it means this is the last chance the Lannisters have to keep the status quo of power. The Lannisters have always been the most powerful house because of their gold. Now that their gold is drying up this makes them a lot more desperate to win the Iron throne. They won't have the chance to wait for another dynastic dispute to gain more power. This is what will make the Lannisters and all the Lannisters (Kaven, ect.) cling more desperately to the throne. Also I feel like it adds more to the gloom and doom. Winter is coming...

[Red Tiger]

You know in hindsight this raises a question.

Remember when Robb said he would take the Westerlands and all of the Lannisters' gold? Well what if he succeeded, how would this have helped him?

[Rockroi]

It's a fairly silly turn, in the sense that no, it's not thought out, much as their turn with Xaro's "wealthiest man in Qarth is in fact bankrupt" thing -- both raise the same questions. You'd think someone whose father was a banking executive might have at least a little more respect for the fundamentals of economics... or maybe not, I guess, after the bailouts? :dunno:

But in any case, I think it's fairly obvious that the change is there to mitigate Cersei still further. She's not going to tell the Iron Bank she won't pay up because she's recklessly arrogant on the topic... but because she'll have no choice. Boo-hoo. :(

(Yeah, not a fan of the whitewash. She's such a bland character.)

Could not agree more.

I think the change is needless and silly; its sort of there to let the viewer know "Hey, look- these people are in decline!" And this way bloggers can write and look smart.

The end result is so Cersei (and the only actress they will need to put up with after this season) will appear to be more caught bewteen a "rock and a hard place" than a terrible, incompetent ruler. They want Cersei to appear more troubled than troubling. And that's weak.

But, look on the bright side everyone- next week, Stannis Baratheon gets to apply for a business loan. What's his credit score?

[Emperoreddy]

Personally, I like the idea. Not just because it symbolizes the demolition of their house, but because it means this is the last chance the Lannisters have to keep the status quo of power. The Lannisters have always been the most powerful house because of their gold. Now that their gold is drying up this makes them a lot more desperate to win the Iron throne. They won't have the chance to wait for another dynastic dispute to gain more power. This is what will make the Lannisters and all the Lannisters (Kaven, ect.) cling more desperately to the throne. Also I feel like it adds more to the gloom and doom. Winter is coming...

I think it also further emphasizes the ties between the Lannisters and the Tyrells. Its not just the army, or even the food, they need the gold too. Cersei's incompetence and pissing on the alliance will be made to look all the worse, and the spider's schemes all the more plain to see for the viewer. Everyone now knows for sure the Lannisters NEED the Tyrells. Cersei is going to look like a buffoon.

[gawain]

I wasn't too excited when Tywin dropped this one on Cersei (and, consequently, on us viewers). Not because they're going off course, deviating from the books or anything like that but because it makes the Lannisters seem weak and desperate.

Nevertheless, I think the showrunners chose to stick with this idea as a result of their changing Stannis's story arc significantly.

Instead of being were he was supposed to be by now, scenes from episode 6 show that Stannis will have a face-to-face with Tycho Nestoris from the Iron Bank of Braavos and will try to win them over to his side. To me, it felt like the Tywin-Cersei scene in episode 5 was nothing but a build-up, made just so the viewers won't get lost in the narrative of the following episode. By telling everyone that the Lannisters are in the red might avoid unwanted questions such as: "Tywin should have predicted this move by Stannis. He knew the crown was in debt so why didn't he pay it with all the gold in Casterly Rock and prevent Stannis from approaching the Iron Bank?"

Well, now we know he was hard-pressed to keep his own neck above water. Personally, I think it's a bad excuse and a bad move, story-wise.

[gawain]

You know in hindsight this raises a question.

Remember when Robb said he would take the Westerlands and all of the Lannisters' gold? Well what if he succeeded, how would this have helped him?

Could be the producers overlooked this. Either way, if not even Cersei knew the mines had been shut for three years, I find it difficult to believe that Robb or any other Northerner would know about the Lannisters' financial situation. I expect this information would be known only to Tywin and a handful of his counselors, like Kevan.

[Fat Trell]

But, look on the bright side everyone- next week, Stannis Baratheon gets to apply for a business loan. What's his credit score?

We all need to appreciate the amazingly awesome absurdity of this situation.

[Gneisenau]

I wasn't too excited when Tywin dropped this one on Cersei (and, consequently, on us viewers). Not because they're going off course, deviating from the books or anything like that but because it makes the Lannisters seem weak and desperate.

Nevertheless, I think the showrunners chose to stick with this idea as a result of their changing Stannis's story arc significantly.

Instead of being were he was supposed to be by now, scenes from episode 6 show that Stannis will have a face-to-face with Tycho Nestoris from the Iron Bank of Braavos and will try to win them over to his side. To me, it felt like the Tywin-Cersei scene in episode 5 was nothing but a build-up, made just so the viewers won't get lost in the narrative of the following episode. By telling everyone that the Lannisters are in the red might avoid unwanted questions such as: "Tywin should have predicted this move by Stannis. He knew the crown was in debt so why didn't he pay it with all the gold in Casterly Rock and prevent Stannis from approaching the Iron Bank?"

Well, now we know he was hard-pressed to keep his own neck above water. Personally, I think it's a bad excuse and a bad move, story-wise.

I think I agree, this scene basically made the Lannisters look like losers to me.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I wasn't too excited when Tywin dropped this one on Cersei (and, consequently, on us viewers). Not because they're going off course, deviating from the books or anything like that but because it makes the Lannisters seem weak and desperate.

So, it resulted that Tywin Lannister wasn't in the privy because he was poisoned after all. He was only trying to get the gold to pay his debts.

[Fat Trell]

So, it resulted that Tywin Lannister wasn't in the privy because he was poisoned after all. He was only trying to get the gold to pay his debts.

...and whores make him sick to his stomach! So clearly Tywin was desperately trying to solve the family debt crisis via thot-induced diarrhea. It was all just a big misunderstanding

[Red Tiger]

Eh, it was kind of funny in an ironic sort of way (and a bit tactless, since Lena Headey is/was reportedly broke herself :stillsick: ), but most of all it felt repetitive. Like, we get it, the Iron Bank is powerful and the Lannisters need the Tyrells. They've literally said it in the previous episodes

How is this any different from season 2 and everybody saying how unyielding Stannis is?

...Wait im starting to see why this is bad.

[Emperoreddy]

I think I agree, this scene basically made the Lannisters look like losers to me.

I disagree, it makes them look stretched thin from years of funding Robert and years of war, but I think you still get every impression that Tywin is still in control of the situation. You understand that the Iron Bank is powerful so he can't just ignore them, but that his control of the crown and alliance with the Tyrells keeps him ahead of the curve. Plus he fully expects to have the Reach and the North (or planned on it with the north) under his control through his children and eventual grandchildren. It will all go to shit for non book readers when Tywin dies and Cersei goes into full idiot paranoid mode.