(Book spoilers) So the Lannister gold has dried up?

[Red Tiger]

Honestly though, the Tyrells probably already know this and I have a feeling this will lead to Cersei and Loras not marrying.

"You want our support? Fine, keep Loras OFF the Kingsguard and have Margaery mold your boy-king"

[D-Shiznit]

This revelation does shatter the Lannister mystique a great deal, knowing that they are merely living in a house cards that is crumbling changes their identity to the viewer. No longer are they the all-powerful house that we once thought but instead one living a lie and leeching off other houses,

[SerArthurHeath]

But what's the problem with that? If there is a constant in ASOIAF is that people is never what they seem to be.

Jaime, the handsome knight in a golden armor = asshole

Sandor, the gruesome ugly man who scares little girls = actually tries to protect one

Cersei, golden beautiful Queen = crazy as fuck.

The Lannisters, rich and powerful = broke.

I think you've oversimplified things . Especially Sandor, but also all of the other 3

[Red Tiger]

It also explains why Tywin has looked....less dominant during season 4. Something was just off about him throughout these 5 episodes, but he never came off as commanding as he was in the prevous 3 seasons. Dance is probably channeling this.

"In my experience men who spend money on this sort of nonsense, tend not to have it for long" LMAO!!!

[SerArthurHeath]

Plus he might be being poisoned

[Red Tiger]

Well it's a good time for The Great Lion of the Rock (I love that alias) to die anyway.

[HouseHarrison]

Removing Littlefingers role in the Iron Bank fiasco by deliberately taking out loans from them en mass was rather disappointing. Hes been purposefully fucking the realm. Hopefully the show addresses it later.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I think you've oversimplified things . Especially Sandor, but also all of the other 3

But that's what GRRM does: takes tropes and cliches and murders them.

[SerArthurHeath]

I disagree, strongly, I think most of what he does is more subtle than that actually

And a subverted/slaughtered trope is still a trope. Never understood the overuse of the word cliché either

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

They aren't broke, but they don't have any new money coming it.

[Pod The Impaler]

Not a fan of this.

I understand the need to emphasize the importance of the Iron Bank, but this seems like a short sighted way to do so. How is this not well known throughout Westoros? Does Tywin have all the goldsmiths, minters, miners, and merchants dealing in supplying said professions on some type of hush-money/welfare program? How was he supplying Robert for years with tourney purses without gold? Was Littlefinger duplicitous in Tywin's fraud?

This screams of something that will never be mentioned again however.

I agree. The fact that there was a war on, so no miners left to mine much (went to war, died) plus the Young Wolf's foragers raiding their mines and caving them in would have made a good enough explanation for why House Lannister would run dry of gold for at least a few years.

Also, Cersei being told the importance of the Iron Bank, and seeming to understand it, undermines the plot point that later she tells them to go fuck themselves.[/spolier]

Perhaps since Stannis has earlier-than-we-expected plans regarding the IB, we're going to see some clash there, sooner rather than later?

[Red Tiger]

Removing Littlefingers role in the Iron Bank fiasco by deliberately taking out loans from them en mass was rather disappointing. Hes been purposefully fucking the realm. Hopefully the show addresses it later.

No, Tyrion mentioned this when he became Master of Coin, Littlefinger definitely had a hand in it.

[Petyr Patter]

The idea of the Lannisters being broke has been discussed before in the books.

Here was my take on it: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/92872-i-suspect-the-lannisters-are-broke/?p=4723471 , along with the rest of thread, obviously.

I like the theory as evidence that the Lannisters were empty despite their many efforts to look rich and powerful. However, the textual evidence just isn't there.

Really, my take home lesson here was the Iron Bank is going to have a huge role in the coming novels.

[Bannerman_Forrester]

People seem to be freaking out acting like the gold mines are their only source of money making. It's the main source of their wealth but they still have farms, ports, lumber, and other stuff for trade. The mines were RUMORED to produce gold even in the current time line, so they were bound to dry up sooner or later giving it's been mined since the Age of Heroes.

[Hippocras]

My take on this is quite different from what many people here are saying.

I think it may not be a change from the books, but rather a spoiler. We know the show this season is moving into territory not yet covered by the books. But if you think about it, a lot of things that have been happening in the books make a bit more sense if this is in fact true and the Lannisters are almost out of gold. Each mine would know their own remaining supply, but may not know the state of the rest of the mines. The Lord of Casterly Rock and its castelan would be the only ones who have an overview.

If the Lannisters are out of gold, it gives depth to the actions of both Cersei and Tyrion. If Cersei knows there is no Lannister gold it means she is perhaps not quite as much of an idiot as everyone assumed when she flatly refused to pay back the Iron Bank: she simply had no way to do so. It also means that Tyrion's gamble when he joined the Second Sons is loaded with sneakiness. He gave away all the gold of Casterly Rock to Brown Ben Plumm and his captains, knowing full well that there was no gold to give.

[Red Tiger]

I have a question.

How Is Tywin's 1000 year dynasty gonna bloom if House Lannister's resources are being drained? Did he even think of this?

[Bannerman_Forrester]

Maybe he plans to crap the gold out?

[Hippocras]

I have a question.

How Is Tywin's 1000 year dynasty gonna bloom if House Lannister's resources are being drained? Did he even think of this?

Well it might in the end be why he was so hungry for the throne. If he knows he is running out of gold then decline is inevitable unless his family climbs instead. With political power, you can spend someone else's money.

[Ran]

Hippocras,

Kevan's epilogue in ADwD makes it fairly plain that Casterly Rock still has plenty of gold. The richness of the mines are a detail Tyrion brings up more than once, and he's resided at the Rock (and worked in and around it) longer than either of his siblings, and so you suppose he'd know.

It's an invention of the show.

[King Zee]

I think the show overdid it by saying the mines are already exhausted. I would have preferred if Tywin had said that production was declining and likely to cease in 3 years.

You get the same idea - time is running out without breaking with the books too much, where the mines are clearly still going.