Mourneblade Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I'm not doubting his ambition one bit but we don't know Duskendale wasn't Tywin's plan we just give Roise the credit because he pulled it off. I admit it could be entirely his plan, but if you look at Roose's actions in the North after the RW he looks less a genius. All I'm saying is his plan, considering he had one, is a mess. Tywin gave him the North but he wasn't going to keep it, he has the trust and respect of no one. And to top it off it all hinged on one guy. For a shrewd genius that was a rookie mistake. The second Tywin dies his entire plan falls apart. Now I get you don't expect the guy to drop dead any minute but as a ruler and a leader and a person in power you plan as if your benefactor will drop dead any minute. I'll give him smart but he's far from a master manipulator, nothing about his actions prove to me Tywin didn't hand him the plan with promises of power and lands ala the Spicers and Westerlings.Tywin dying was not a negative for Roose. Stannis going North was. No Stannis and there is no one to oppose Roose. Not even combine can all the houses beat Roose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I don't think Roose is "smarter" or anything remotely special about his wits. He's older and experienced, and that's always an advantage. He has already seen battles while Robb, despite being "The King in the North", it's still a summer child. He has a good deal of learned wisdom like you say, but I wouldn't underestimate his natural cunning. There's a reason he was picked to lead the Stark foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Tywin dying was not a negative for Roose. Stannis going North was. No Stannis and there is no one to oppose Roose. Not even combine can all the houses beat Roose. Manderly combined with the rest would probably be able to defeat the Dreadfort, but that wouldn't happen without someone to rally behind. Voila, here comes Stannis. But even so, Roose had several plans in place that nearly brought him Stannis's head on a spike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Manderly combined with the rest would probably be able to defeat the Dreadfort, but that wouldn't happen without someone to rally behind. Voila, here comes Stannis. But even so, Roose had several plans in place that nearly brought him Stannis's head on a spikeExactly, however it was Roose and two thousand Freys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Exactly, however it was Roose and two thousand Freys True. In a civil war of Manderly/Glover/Mormont/Flint vs Roose/the Freys, it may have just come down to better generalship. Manderly can summon a lot of soldiers but the rest of those Houses have been decimated But Manderly is too smart for that. His power and cunning make him the only real threat to Roose in the North (Stannis would have gotten nowhere without Jon and Alys Karstark) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theon {HUNGRY WOLF} Stark Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Manderly combined with the rest would probably be able to defeat the Dreadfort, but that wouldn't happen without someone to rally behind. Voila, here comes Stannis. But even so, Roose had several plans in place that nearly brought him Stannis's head on a spikeWhich plan would have brought him Stannis' head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Which plan would have brought him Stannis' head? The planned Karstark betrayal. If you havent read the Theon WoW chapter you may want to give it a go :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanzor Posted May 11, 2014 Author Share Posted May 11, 2014 True. In a civil war of Manderly/Glover/Mormont/Flint vs Roose/the Freys, it may have just come down to better generalship. Manderly can summon a lot of soldiers but the rest of those Houses have been decimated But Manderly is too smart for that. His power and cunning make him the only real threat to Roose in the North (Stannis would have gotten nowhere without Jon and Alys Karstark) I believe Manderly has another ace in his sleeve: I believe we will see the valor and skill of Ser Marlon.He really seems a badass Manderly,not even fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavosSmug Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 you can make a case for Roose for sure: 1) Even though Boltons aren't loved in the north, they are respected and Roose is an accomplished commander and a stern leader 2) House Bolton is the second greatest house in the north (i think) and with a strong head of the house like Roose, him ascending the title isn't ridicoulus 3) The war waas lost, the North was either gonna bend or die, and I think many are grateful that Roose (however shortly) gave it to them but then again he is associated with the Freys whom almost all the northern lords want to kill, if he handn't brought the Freys, the lords of winter might just had said fine, but i guess we'll never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Which plan would have brought him Stannis' head? The planned Karstark betrayal. If you havent read the Theon WoW chapter you may want to give it a go :) He also hoped to lure Stannis to attack the Dreadfort, which Stannis was going to do until Jon interceded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Antony Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 He also hoped to lure Stannis to attack the Dreadfort, which Stannis was going to do until Jon intercededYeah can't fault Stan for listening to sound advice though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsay Gimp Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 Yeah can't fault Stan for listening to sound advice though Oh sure, just saying it speaks to Roose's planning that he came so close to luring Stannis into a trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanzor Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 you can make a case for Roose for sure: 1) Even though Boltons aren't loved in the north, they are respected and Roose is an accomplished commander and a stern leader 2) House Bolton is the second greatest house in the north (i think) and with a strong head of the house like Roose, him ascending the title isn't ridicoulus 3) The war waas lost, the North was either gonna bend or die, and I think many are grateful that Roose (however shortly) gave it to them but then again he is associated with the Freys whom almost all the northern lords want to kill, if he handn't brought the Freys, the lords of winter might just had said fine, but i guess we'll never know You quite resumed what this thread is about.There are "+"-es and "-" and i believe that Roose is seen at worst "controversial". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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