Arrow 4: Clash of the Queens (Season 2 spoilers)

[The Kingmaker]

Didn't really like how storylines played out except Thea's. She will be a badass Tigress I hope :p

[Bastard of Boston]

I still say that the overall DC movie verse is making a huge mistake by not including the shows into thier world. With Flash and Arrow they have a nice start for the Justice league and television would allow them to showcase other heroes that wouldn't really hold thier own movie franchise. Heck do a DC universe show where they just have rotating stories about different heroes.

I don't think it's necessarily a good idea for WB to put all their eggs in a CW basket. You can use Marvel as a template, but even with that, Agents of SHIELD is a minor risk. It doesn't use any big-name characters -- all of the characters on the show (with a few minor exceptions) are purely TV creations. Occasionally, Marvel will throw in a bone with a random Nick Fury or Sif appearance. So, Marvel is taking advantage of the films without committing too much. If the show bombs, it can be cancelled with minimal damage control. Committing to the CW for the definitive portrayals of Green Arrow and Flash could end up blowing up in WB's faces. There are no do-overs.

I suppose, if you enjoyed the season, you wouldn't necessarily call it a risk. Considering I was less than enamored with how the season went, it's dictating my aversion to making these CW shows a part of DC's filmverse. I mean, it's the CW. Even if I do like the shows, it just doesn't seem right.

[Black Wolf Smith]

So, the finale. As is the case with most of this season, it looked great. The battle scenes were as entertaining as always. The production value was top notch. However, I couldn't be more disinterested in any of the story elements.

In truth, that was kind of secondary to the action in this ep. It was mostly about the action.

The waller connection in the past was a surprise.

When Dig first went to tell Oli about her/them, Oli already knew about them. Just like when Sara tried to tell him about the LoA. As we go forward, both of those and the Russian Mob, will all have to be dealt with. (Yea, I know the guy on the sub said "you ever need" but at some point he must have had a need. Might all be tied in together )

I swear, if it wasn't for interview comments from the showrunners I would guess that Felicity is supposed to be the long-term love interest and partner of Oliver's. As it is, they seem happy to tease people with that, my guess is there's going to be a lot of unhappy shippers when Oliver and Laurel finally officially become official.

I read somewhere that they were going to explore more of the Olicity next season, and that there would be a tease in the final, which of coarse we got.

Was it just me, When did Harper learn to shoot an arrow? Last time I remember him trying, he was pretty bad.

I like it, think the have done a good job w/ most of everything about this show.

[red snow]

I get how Thea is pissed - she has had a shitty year but not everyone would respond by behaving as petulantly as she does. The way she constantly goes to the "I'll never forgive" you extreme from event to event just gets tiring. And some of her actions regarding her mother and the business were just spiteful. Yes, I can see how people would behave like that and the fact she continually does so fits but it's an annoying trait.

I think going to the dark side was the most sensible decision she's made. Merlyn is probably one of the few people who will be strangely honest with her and I think the character is best when she's taking charge of her own life - like with the club.

[Sci-2]

I liked how it all came together. Was not expecting the Felicity-love-fake-out, so that was probably my favorite twist. Also like where Slade ended up once again.

Thea turning to Malcom was a lot better handled than I'd expected, I just hope she doesn't end up going to the evil side without at least some realistic resistance.

Sad to see Sara leave, but Laurel's turn around makes her less annoying. Detective Lance better be around, even if his injuries keep him out of the action for a good part of S3.

All in all a great finale and excellent conclusion with some decent surprises. Excited to see how S3 goes, especially with the Flash arising.

[Black Wolf Smith]

As for Thea, as someone up thread or at the end of the last thread said, Its like all the growing up she did while w/ Harper all disappeared. She basically has become the "Aw me, poor little rich girl" all over again.

Amell said in an interview that they did 2 things that had never been done before on TV. I guess one was the flashback showing an arrow in the eye ( that was bad-ass) but have no idea what else he could have meant.

I really liked that 5 minute preview of Flash.I really like that unlike most of CW shows, you can actuality see whats going on ( as most CW shows seem dark and gloomy) It might be even better then Arrow.

I was reading on-line how this writer didn't think either Arrow or Flash would be good for DC in the long run, and that it could box in// hold back the bigger characters movies. I totally disagree w/ his ideas. The biggest problem with even the really good Comic book Superhero's movies is that they all seemed rush, and don't have the time to fully develop many of the important characters. They may fish out "The" hero, and "The" Villian,(often repeating the same characters as other movies) but few others. Even some of the newest Comic superhero's/super villain are 20-25 years old (from the early '90's) and have been building up not just their own history, but also their friends and allies. Other then "the Hulk", most of the superhero TV shows have either been campy or done as a love story w/ some action as oppose to being action movie.

If they do it the right way, they can do cameo's of characters from up coming movies ( both friends and foe) much like Marvel done the last few minutes of the more resent movies ( and trying to do w/ AofS). I would really love it, if they picked a lesser known villain and have him build up his story on one of the shows, and have his character plans disrupted by Flash or Arrow, only to decided to go with a bigger plan and wind up against JLoA or another superhero on the big screen.

[Jaxom 1974]

Damn that was a lot of fun.

Lotta great set up. Lotta great action. They're remains nothing, however, that can reconcile me to Laurel being a viable love interest, Black Canary, or character in general.

[Jon AS]

Thea turning to Malcom was a lot better handled than I'd expected, I just hope she doesn't end up going to the evil side without at least some realistic resistance.

I thought that was really weak. She goes from shooting him to skipping town with him becaues she finds a bow and arrows under Roy's bed? Y'know, Roy, the not-so-bright guy who has been obsessed with the Arrow since he saved his life? That doesn't mean anything at all, yet somehow the show tried to sell it as the last straw that pushed Thea into supervillain daddy's arms. That's so out of left field that what I actually expected to happen was Thea showing up somewhere with that bow and using it to help out (and obviously taking the time to remind people of those archery trophies she's been shown having in her room at some point...).

[Fiddler]

I thought that was really weak. She goes from shooting him to skipping town with him becaues she finds a bow and arrows under Roy's bed? Y'know, Roy, the not-so-bright guy who has been obsessed with the Arrow since he saved his life? That doesn't mean anything at all, yet somehow the show tried to sell it as the last straw that pushed Thea into supervillain daddy's arms. That's so out of left field that what I actually expected to happen was Thea showing up somewhere with that bow and using it to help out (and obviously taking the time to remind people of those archery trophies she's been shown having in her room at some point...).

The bow was the last straw though. Roy had just told her no more secrets, something that has torn her life apart, then told her he has nothing to do with Arrow anymore. He gets a phone call, leaves, then she finds the bow. It showed her that Roy, the man she loves, is still lying to her, something that everyone else in her family, except the murderous father, has been doing lately.

[Jon AS]

The bow was the last straw though. Roy had just told her no more secrets, something that has torn her life apart, then told her he has nothing to do with Arrow anymore. He gets a phone call, leaves, then she finds the bow. It showed her that Roy, the man she loves, is still lying to her, something that everyone else in her family, except the murderous father, has been doing lately.

My point was that it doesn't actually prove anything. If she'd been suspicious, followed Roy and seen him meet up with Oliver, fine, that's catching him in a lie. Just finding the bow and deciding that running away with a mass murderer is saner than at least confronting Roy about her suspicions is simply stupid.

[Fiddler]

My point was that it doesn't actually prove anything. If she'd been suspicious, followed Roy and seen him meet up with Oliver, fine, that's catching him in a lie. Just finding the bow and deciding that running away with a mass murderer is saner than at least confronting Roy about her suspicions is simply stupid.

Why wouldn't it prove something, in her mind at least? I mean Roy has been shown to be constantly lying to her, he tried to kill her and now he has a bow under his bed even though he has never shown an inclination for Bow and arrow. It shows that Roy is still invloved with the arrow some how, which shows that he is still lying to her.

Again, everyone in her life in the past year has lied to her constantly. That is everyone except her mass murdering father. The lies pushed her over the edge and she went with the one person who hasn't lied to her. Is it a good choice? Hell no, but people make bad choices based on emotions in life all the time. Most likely she will regret it in the end, but right now this is the choice that seems best in her frazzled mind.

I

[Jon AS]

It shows that Roy is still invloved with the arrow some how, which shows that he is still lying to her.

No, it shows he has a bow and arrow under his bed. Which he didn't take with him when he left. The show wants this to be a sign of betrayal, but that's a massive leap in logic.

Again, everyone in her life in the past year has lied to her constantly.

Actually Walter has been pretty straightforward with her, calling him would have been the sane choice. But the show wants her to be mentored by Merlyn, so that's what we get.

[Warg Arry]

No, it shows he has a bow and arrow under his bed. Which he didn't take with him when he left. The show wants this to be a sign of betrayal, but that's a massive leap in logic.

I know it's really neither here nor there. But, why was his bow and quiver under his bed. Sure ok the arrows I understand. They were using Oliver's cure arrows. His quiver would have been useful and obviously his bow too when going into this situation.

Sure he could be using a spare. Or he has more than one bow..

It's just struck me as strange. Go to help the Arrow in a situation where he would need a bow at least.

Leaves them under his bed.

I suppose it's better than Thea finding a picture of the Arrow and Roy holding their bows and giving a thumbs up for the camera. Or something like that.

[Underfoot]

I know it's really neither here nor there. But, why was his bow and quiver under his bed. Sure ok the arrows I understand. They were using Oliver's cure arrows. His quiver would have been useful and obviously his bow too when going into this situation.

Sure he could be using a spare. Or he has more than one bow..

It's just struck me as strange. Go to help the Arrow in a situation where he would need a bow at least.

Leaves them under his bed.

I suppose it's better than Thea finding a picture of the Arrow and Roy holding their bows and giving a thumbs up for the camera. Or something like that.

Hahaha, I didn't think about that! Too funny.

There are a lot of problems with this show (in general and specifically with the latter half of this season), but it's still damn fun. Very excited for next season and the premiere of Flash (The Flash?).

[AverageGuy]

Considering I was less than enamored with how the season went

When I think about the season, I think there were some rough spots. I don't think I have as strong a reaction, but I do find myself nodding along with some of your criticisms. For example, I didn't find the Isabel/Queen connection that compelling, and I also think it would have been more interesting to see how she became involved with Slade. But there were things that I did like. Moira's death actually did surprise me, Black Canary generally, a lot of Slade moments. I think season three still has potential, though they may need to tighten up the overarching narrative a little bit so that we don't have a character going in fifty new directions or plotlines that just disappear for a couple months. I'm glad Ollie's off the island, since I thought it was starting to drag, though I'm wondering how they're going to handle the Waller connection now.

[Jon AS]

I know it's really neither here nor there. But, why was his bow and quiver under his bed. Sure ok the arrows I understand. They were using Oliver's cure arrows. His quiver would have been useful and obviously his bow too when going into this situation.

Sure he could be using a spare. Or he has more than one bow..

It's just struck me as strange. Go to help the Arrow in a situation where he would need a bow at least.

Leaves them under his bed.

I was actually surprised he bothered to bring a bow home with him, considering the one time we saw him practice with one he was anything but a natural archer and didn't exactly seem excited to learn.

He also must have had that thing stashed there since before he ran away and was kidnapped by Slade, which makes it even less of a symbol of renewed betrayal of Thea.

I suppose it's better than Thea finding a picture of the Arrow and Roy holding their bows and giving a thumbs up for the camera. Or something like that.

I thought such a picture wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibilities with these writers. Though if they can see a way to fit in heavy handed symbols they jump at the chance, like Laurel getting Sara's jacket setting her on the road to become a superhero, lack of actual qualifications be damned. :stillsick:

[red snow]

I thought such a picture wouldn't have been outside the realm of possibilities with these writers. Though if they can see a way to fit in heavy handed symbols they jump at the chance, like Laurel getting Sara's jacket setting her on the road to become a superhero, lack of actual qualifications be damned. :stillsick:

Maybe it's a magic jacket? They had super this season so maybe they can have magic next? Like you say the writers take shortcuts :P

[Jon AS]

Maybe it's a magic jacket? They had super this season so maybe they can have magic next? Like you say the writers take shortcuts :P

Magic jacket would explain why Laurel's (admittedly minimal) display of sadness over her sister leaving to rejoin the cult of mystical ninja assassins (which, just a few episodes ago, she tried to leave behind forever by dying) is immediately wiped from her face the moment she puts on the jacket, to be replaced by an expression of pure joy. Seriously, I just rewatched that and it may have been the happiest Laurel has ever looked in two full seasons. What a bizarre acting/directing/writing choice.

[Jaxom 1974]

Despite Slade taking Laurel, I was never really imbued with a sense that she was actually Oliver's true love. I mean, still zero chemistry. He's been sleeping with Sarah. The Felicity Faint came across as more plausible than anything else with Laurel. What can the writers possibly be thinking for next season?

[red snow]

Magic jacket would explain why Laurel's (admittedly minimal) display of sadness over her sister leaving to rejoin the cult of mystical ninja assassins (which, just a few episodes ago, she tried to leave behind forever by dying) is immediately wiped from her face the moment she puts on the jacket, to be replaced by an expression of pure joy. Seriously, I just rewatched that and it may have been the happiest Laurel has ever looked in two full seasons. What a bizarre acting/directing/writing choice.

The AA meetings have maybe told her to be more appreciative of the small things in life :)

Yeah, it is all a bit sleazy the whole "sleeping with both sisters" thing. And I also agree that the returning to the evil assasin gang and give up being a hero was taken very lightly by Sara's family. Probably not by Olly which is is why he wasn't there.

If Laurel puts the magic jacket over her dad it will probably save him.