Arrow 4: Clash of the Queens (Season 2 spoilers)

[Bastard of Boston]

When I think about the season, I think there were some rough spots. I don't think I have as strong a reaction, but I do find myself nodding along with some of your criticisms. For example, I didn't find the Isabel/Queen connection that compelling, and I also think it would have been more interesting to see how she became involved with Slade. But there were things that I did like. Moira's death actually did surprise me, Black Canary generally, a lot of Slade moments. I think season three still has potential, though they may need to tighten up the overarching narrative a little bit so that we don't have a character going in fifty new directions or plotlines that just disappear for a couple months. I'm glad Ollie's off the island, since I thought it was starting to drag, though I'm wondering how they're going to handle the Waller connection now.

When I think back to the beginning of the season, with all the potential, I'm actually faced with the fact that I barely remember what the plot points were, as the season became so cluttered with other stuff, it's hard to pinpoint a coherent season story. "I loved the beginning of this season so much...if only I can remember what the arc was like in those first 5 episodes, so I can explain why..."

On the topic of Ollie/Laurel: It's funny to see you guys talking about the lack of chemistry. I blame the writing more than the actual actors. Please refer back to season one, episode one, when Ollie was pining over a photo of Laurel, giving the impression that all he did for the previous 5 years was think of ways to get back to her.

Now, please refer to the previous two years of flashback storylines, where Ollie was banging both Shado and Sara while on the island. And subsequently continues his relationship with Sara once off the island. I'm sure Ollie will have sex with Amanda Waller next season, in the new flashbacks, to further illustrate the connection Ollie has with Laurel. The show has shown no foresight and completely disregards story elements it only implemented as little as a year ago. They undermined this supposed soul mate relationship right from the jump.

If the show wanted to set up Ollie and Laurel, it would've worked better if -- before the island -- the relationship was paper thin, thus explaining why Ollie would want to have sex with anyone, but her -- sister, included. Then, after the island, you can slowly start re-establishing the relationship as two exes completely disinterested in one another, who slowly become lovers as they ease into their new identities.

[Jaxom 1974]

When I think back to the beginning of the season, with all the potential, I'm actually faced with the fact that I barely remember what the plot points were, as the season became so cluttered with other stuff, it's hard to pinpoint a coherent season story. "I loved the beginning of this season so much...if only I can remember what the arc was like in those first 5 episodes, so I can explain why..."

Huh. I looked at the previous season as going more in waves than arcs...things lapped up against one another. Count Vertigo was being funded by Brother Blood, Brother Blood was working for Slade. There were other things going on, but things weren't that convoluted...

[Bastard of Boston]

Tomato/tomahto. I suppose my intention with the statement wasn't so much to say things were too complex -- it's just the opposite. The show became so distracted with doing cool shit, it forgot that one of the basic tenants of good storytelling is making connections. When I say the season arc ended incoherently, it was to say I don't feel as if the writers did a sufficient job making the season arc flow. It was one jerky ride of stops and starts. So, in that sense, it wasn't a coherent story for me because the writers didn't seem to care about the nuts and bolts. Stuff happened. More stuff happened. The between stuff didn't happen much.

Then you have the flashback arc, which served no purpose outside of showing us how Slade lost an eye. That's probably my biggest complaint with the show. Investing too much time in this God-awful flashback arc that led nowhere -- it was just a very obvious, very basic and monotonous story about nothing. So, I kept paying attention to it, thinking that some compelling connections would be made outside of the obvious "This is how Slade and Ollie fell out" stuff, to no avail. If the show cut out all that needless fat, they could've spent so much more time on the stuff that needed the attention. Instead of paying random Russian guy recurring character money, they could've given that cash to actors like Glau and Blood.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Maybe it's a magic jacket? They had super this season so maybe they can have magic next? Like you say the writers take shortcuts

I read some where, where that ask if that was passing the of the Carney torch. It is funny to me that the writers/ producers etc, all think we like Loral, when I don't think I read anyone one, any where that likes her character, other then them, and of coarse promo adds/ articles about the show.

How, How could she become the Canary? Even w/ Sara gone, wouldn't she have to be some other hero? Well, I looked it up, I guess both Black Canary's were Lance's, but had the same first name as Dinah.

[BormonReborn]

I read some where, where that ask if that was passing the of the Carney torch. It is funny to me that the writers/ producers etc, all think we like Loral, when I don't think I read anyone one, any where that likes her character, other then them, and of coarse promo adds/ articles about the show.

How, How could she become the Canary? Even w/ Sara gone, wouldn't she have to be some other hero? Well, I looked it up, I guess both Black Canary's were Lance's, but had the same first name as Dinah.

First, and I hope you don't take too much offense... but that was painful to read. I am NOT the grammar police...so take it with a grain of salt. (And if English is not your first language, then you have my admiration)

That being said, you are correct. I have yet to find anyone who actually likes the Laurel character. I REALLY hope they don't make her the new Black Canary.

Dinah Lance in the show is Laurel and Sara's mother. (The original Black Canary in the comics) Early on, they hinted that there might be more to her character. I hope they expand upon that. I love Alex Kingston and would love to see more of her!

[Mexal]

I think you're pretty much the only one who loves Alex Kingston. Well done.

I don't know what's going to happen to Laurel but they need to do something to keep her in the action. When she's a sideshow and off on her own little stories, it doesn't work because it's just not interesting. If she's involved with the Arrow and team somehow, she might become a less whiny character.

Personally, I'd love for them to keep Sara and expand on her story. Have a few episodes where the flashbacks are her being found by Nyssa and training with the LoA. Given that she's still alive, I do expect her to come back, especially if Ra's Al Ghul becomes the big bad next season.

[Jaxom 1974]

Ra's seems inevitable at this point, doesn't he? Though to have him simply apart as a Big Bad this next season lacks a little motivation. Merlyn isn't exactly in the picture at the moment. Nyssa isn't hurt or dead. Sarah went back. I'm looking forward to him, but I don't think they're going there any earlier than the half way point. Next season is going to be more about Argus to start I think.

[Mexal]

Ra's seems inevitable at this point, doesn't he? Though to have him simply apart as a Big Bad this next season lacks a little motivation. Merlyn isn't exactly in the picture at the moment. Nyssa isn't hurt or dead. Sarah went back. I'm looking forward to him, but I don't think they're going there any earlier than the half way point. Next season is going to be more about Argus to start I think.

Yea, you're likely right about Argus, especially with the HK flashbacks. Merlyn will be a regular next year but I think that has more to do with Thea than Ollie though I could still see that be a strain on everyone's relationship and Merlyn become the big bad by the end of the season.

[Jaxom 1974]

If Merlyn is a major side plot during the first half of the season, it isn't inconceivable that he is making ready to make a play for control of the LoA bringing Ra's into the second half.

[Mexal]

If Merlyn is a major side plot during the first half of the season, it isn't inconceivable that he is making ready to make a play for control of the LoA bringing Ra's into the second half.

I could buy that. We'll see when they start casting I guess.

[Black Wolf Smith]

First, and I hope you don't take too much offense... but that was painful to read. I am NOT the grammar police...so take it with a grain of salt. (And if English is not your first language, then you have my admiration)

That being said, you are correct. I have yet to find anyone who actually likes the Laurel character. I REALLY hope they don't make her the new Black Canary.

Dinah Lance in the show is Laurel and Sara's mother. (The original Black Canary in the comics) Early on, they hinted that there might be more to her character. I hope they expand upon that. I love Alex Kingston and would love to see more of her!

Part of that is this computer, the other part is that I can type or speak, but doing both at the same time, not so much.

I really like Alex Kingston, but not on this.

[Jaxom 1974]

Cast discusses some thoughts/SPOILERS for Season 3...

"'What do you think?' Katie Cassidy responds with a big smile..." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[Martini Sigil]

My wife, who never read a DC comic in her life loves this show..... So I watch, mainly because I love her nerdiness, and her ass.... It is fun, for sure....

I do like "street level" heroes....and Felicity might be the most lovable character on TV

A bunch of Arrow stars will be at Philly Comic Con.... we'll be there too :)\\

season 3 update: http://screenrant.com/arrow-season-3-plot-characters-villain/

[red snow]

My wife, who never read a DC comic in her life loves this show..... So I watch, mainly because I love her nerdiness, and her ass.... It is fun, for sure....

I do like "street level" heroes....and Felicity might be the most lovable character on TV

A bunch of Arrow stars will be at Philly Comic Con.... we'll be there too :)\\

season 3 update: http://screenrant.com/arrow-season-3-plot-characters-villain/

I'd be surprised if the tech-based superhero isn't a DC character. Maybe it'll be their version of the blue beetle?

[Jaxom 1974]

I'd be surprised if the tech-based superhero isn't a DC character. Maybe it'll be their version of the blue beetle?

There's been mention of Kord Industries I thought... This is a good guess.

[AverageGuy]

I'd be surprised if the tech-based superhero isn't a DC character. Maybe it'll be their version of the blue beetle?

Ted Kord's a really good guess, I like it. Though "tech-powered" actually leaves some wiggle room for someone who initially gets their powers from technology, like Firestorm getting powers from a nuclear explosion. Or if "poised to become Oliver’s rival" means eventually turning into a supervillain instead of just being a rival for Felicity, it could also be a character like Anarky, Calculator, Javelin, or Sportsmaster.

[Jaxom 1974]

Sportsmaster had always felt a little to similar to Deathstroke to me.

[red snow]

There's been mention of Kord Industries I thought... This is a good guess.

I think it may have been mentioned at some point. It'd be interesting to see him on screen so fingers crossed it is.

Ted Kord's a really good guess, I like it. Though "tech-powered" actually leaves some wiggle room for someone who initially gets their powers from technology, like Firestorm getting powers from a nuclear explosion. Or if "poised to become Oliver’s rival" means eventually turning into a supervillain instead of just being a rival for Felicity, it could also be a character like Anarky, Calculator, Javelin, or Sportsmaster.

This is when I realise I'm relatively new to DC lore (having only read them for the past 10 years!). I only really know of Anarky and Calculator from that list. Calculator was the anti-oracle from the time I read about him, not so much of a hands on guy,

[Jon AS]

The Wiki entry for Sportsmaster mentions him dressing up in hockey outfit and football shorts and using exploding basketballs as weapons. On the one hand I kind of want to see that, on the other I'm not sure it'd make for an impressive recurring character.;)

[Jaxom 1974]

The Wiki entry for Sportsmaster mentions him dressing up in hockey outfit and football shorts and using exploding basketballs as weapons. On the one hand I kind of want to see that, on the other I'm not sure it'd make for an impressive recurring character.;)

My perception of Sportsmaster is likely tinged by the portrayal on the Young Justice cartoon.