What about [SPOILER]'s dreams in that character's last chapter

[eggman89]

I'm obviously talking about Jamie.

Who was that lady in her last chapter. Was it her Mother, a silent sister or someone else?

And why did she start crying when Jamies tells how he and Cersie are Knight and Queen, as Tywin wanted.

Does she start crying because they are not Tywin's children at all, but Aerys ?

This would also mix well with what Jamie's Aunt told him, That Tyrion is the only true son of Tywin.

I mean, Jamie and Cersie are into incest just like Tygarians.

Am I over-thinking or totally off the track?

[HairGrowsBack]

A+J = J+C is a relatively popular theory, which I personaly don't buy/like.

The dream is most likely relying on Jaime's emotions and sense that he's been disappointing those he loves/looks up to .

He and Cersei have seemingly achieve success (he's the LC of the KG and she's the queen), but beneath the glitter they've been miserable their whole lives. I interpret Joanna (their mother) crying because her children's success is hollow and doesn't bring them any happiness, and they've become morally...questionnable, shall we say ? Also, her children engaging into an unhealthy, damaging incestuous affair would probably be a bummer.

[Niryas]

Does A+J = C+J mean Cersei and Jamie are possibly the children of Aerys and Joanna, instead of Tywin and Joanna?

Sorry, not very good with the whole abbreviations thing :)

[HairGrowsBack]

Does A+J = C+J mean Cersei and Jamie are possibly the children of Aerys and Joanna, instead of Tywin and Joanna?

Sorry, not very good with the whole abbreviations thing :)

Yes, that's it. There's also (alternatively) the theory that Tyrion is Aerys and Joanna's child. I don't like any of them to be honest.

And don't worry, all these abbreviations can get very confusing, I was constantly checking them at the beginning. ;)

[Niryas]

A+J = J+C is a relatively popular theory, which I personaly don't buy/like.

Yes, that's it. There's also (alternatively) the theory that Tyrion is Aerys and Joanna's child. I don't like any of them to be honest.

Yeah, I have to agree. I don't think that there's much merit to the idea that Aery's is the father of Cersie and Jamie. Tywin was never one to be completely oblivious that his wife was unfaithful, and if he did know, then there's absolutely NO way that he would have been completely silent about it.

Plus, there hasn't been anything that really hints at the fact that Joanna and Aerys had a relationship (willingly or not). Jamie and Cersie are the spitting image of what a Lannister is supposed to look like. The only thing that might have hinted at it was when Genna told him that Jamie was not Tywin's son,but she goes on to say that he resembles all three of his uncles. I think it's fairly obvious that she was referencing that Jamie is not the son that most resembles Tywin's personality.

Jamie and Cersie's incestuous relationship is a pretty crappy argument for them having Targaryen blood in them.

That's my opinion on the matter, but if someone knows anything else that could be used to argue something different, please let me know. (Nothing from aDwD, obviously. I haven't read it :drunk: )

[Niryas]

I think that this dream is part of Jamie's transformation into a better person. In my opinion, he's starting to see that all this ambition and devotion had led him no where, which was his mother was upset.

However, the fact that his hand was missing means that this was some sort of way that Jamie was able to speak to his mother. Maybe she knows some terrible fate of Jamie's and is crying over that.

Honestly, I don't understand what it's supposed to mean, because they made it pretty clear that it wasn't just a regular dream, but she doesn't really hint at anything other than maybe something terrible was going to happen, but nothing about how or when or why.

[Niryas]

Yes, that's it. There's also (alternatively) the theory that Tyrion is Aerys and Joanna's child. I don't like any of them to be honest.

There is some backing that Tyrion could be a Targaryen bastard because that would give us the third head of the dragon that Aemon spoke about on his way back from Braavos. The others being Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen.

[HairGrowsBack]

There is some backing that Tyrion could be a Targaryen bastard because that would give us the third head of the dragon that Aemon spoke about on his way back from Braavos. The others being Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen.

I agree that there are some elements backing this theory (his obsession with dragons for instance is really emphasized for instance), but honestly :

1) I am sick of the Secret Targ theories in general

2) Tyrion's dynamic(s) with his family are one of the most fascinating aspect of his character/the series ; his being a secret Targ would somehow cheapen it imo

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I'm obviously talking about Jamie.

Who was that lady in her last chapter. Was it her Mother, a silent sister or someone else?

It was his mother, yep. Or that seems to be the current agreement in mostly threads.

And why did she start crying when Jamies tells how he and Cersie are Knight and Queen, as Tywin wanted.

Does she start crying because they are not Tywin's children at all, but Aerys ?

I think she cries because even though Jaime and Cersei are legally and officially a Knight and a Queen like their father wanted, they're anything like a knight and a queen should be. Jaime is known to be the "Kingslayer" and Cersei, Jaime realised already, it's a terrible Queen who didn't even give the King heirs but rather conceived them from him.

If this dream is just a dream, then it's only Jaime's guilt kicking in. Along his chapters and memories, he remembered what happened to Rhaegar's children and what he did to Aerys. Also, how him being a KG got nothing to do with his skill but something that Aerys did to insult Tywin, and how his views of knighthood changed from wanting to be Arthur Dayne and becoming the Kingslayer.

This would also mix well with what Jamie's Aunt told him, That Tyrion is the only true son of Tywin.

She meant Tyrion is the only one with Tywin's character and skills.

I mean, Jamie and Cersie are into incest just like Tygarians.

There is some true in that. I think that when Jaime and Cersei started their relationship, they justify it by taking the Targaryens as an example, something like "they're dragonlords, we're lions and we don't mate with sheep". The Lannisters see themselves as better than anyone else, and I think the only ones who, during those times, they saw as "better" were the Targaryens. That's why Tywin wanted Cersei married to Rhaegar.

Am I over-thinking or totally off the track?

Nah, everybody here overthinks. :P

[Niryas]

1) I am sick of the Secret Targ theories in general

2) Tyrion's dynamic(s) with his family are one of the most fascinating aspect of his character/the series ; his being a secret Targ would somehow cheapen it imo

I have to agree, if every time someone accused a character of being a Targaryen spawn, basically everyone in this series would be.

Also, if Tyrion turned out to be a Targaryen, that would almost excuse Tywin's behavior. I always thought that Tywin's relationship with his son was probably his biggest failure. He threw away the entire future of the Lannister family because he didn't want to admit that this dwarf could take his place as head of the house hold. Instead it ended up in Cersie's hands, who seems quite determined to burn everything to the ground.