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[Book Spoilers] EP406 Discussion


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I hope those who always complain about Dany being perfect and flawless are happier now, because she looked like a total idiot in this episode. The son of a slavemaster claims his father was totally innocent in the deaths of the children and she believes him instantly because slave masters are such honest people who always say the truth, right? Giving in so easily will make her look weak and manipulable to the Meereense nobles.

Then the goat herder says Drogon killed all his livestock when we clearly saw that he only took single goat the rest got away. Of course Dany doesn't question this and promises him three times the worth of all his animals in gold. Barristan gives her a look like 'Are you stupid?'. She never asks for proof. How did the goat herder get the bones when Drogon carried his prey off into the far away mountains? Now when the word spreads that Dany is paying gold for animal bones, people can just burn their livestock, bring it to her and make some big cash (I think that's what happens in ADWD, correct me if I'm wrong), it was a really dumb move. They are really showing her as a bad and naive ruler from the moment she sits on the bench.

Holy wah! Drogon burned like the whole flock.. Who cares if he only brought the bones of one of them in, 80% of that's guys flock are all probably dead. I didn't think it was that hard to understand that. It doesn't matter that Drogon only took one goat, the rest were burned.

Also since this is the first person to bring bones of livestock in I don't see why this guys would lie, he seemed scared shitless. I do agree that people will probably start brining in bones of whatever they can find though.

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So, apparently I'm not the only one who thought there was "little and less" going on last night:

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/05/game-of-thrones-the-seinfeldian-trial-of-tyrion-lannister/362034/

Didn't quite change my mInd about the trial but I get what they mean about the Bank of Braavos.

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It seemed crystal clear to me that Varys knew the Hound was travelling with Arya.

How would he know that, exactly? The only other people who know Arya is even alive are Gendry, Hot Pie, and a few members of the Brotherhood.

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Not sure if it was already discussed, but does anyone have a clue who the guy sitting next to loras is?



I thought they wouldn't have another Tyrell brother in the show, but his clothing indicates a tyrell connection.


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It seemed crystal clear to me that Varys knew the Hound was travelling with Arya. By extension, seems crystal clear Varys knows exactly where Sansa is. I mean come on, what idiot in the Seven Kingdoms wouldn't put Sansa together with Petyr's newly appeared Bastard/Niece?

i didnt get that feeling...while they might know that the hound is not travelling alone, there is no one alive who has seen arya with the hound...at least no one who would recognize her to be a Stark...and the Hound left KL a long time after Arya did, no reason for them to suspect he would take her under his wing...

regarding Sansa at the Vale, to my knowledge, Varys does not seem to know anything about whats going on in there...there doesnt seem to be any communication between the Vale and the outside world, which is why they sent LF to bring them back in to the fold. Plus since Sansa just got there, it makes sense that new wouldn't have reached even Varys yet

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regarding Sansa at the Vale, to my knowledge, Varys does not seem to know anything about whats going on in there...there doesnt seem to be any communication between the Vale and the outside world, which is why they sent LF to bring them back in to the fold. Plus since Sansa just got there, it makes sense that new wouldn't have reached even Varys yet

Varys would presumably have sources in the Vale, as with everywhere else. But there's no indication that Varys in the books has any idea where Sansa is, so this may be a case where the TV version is just going to have to look dumber as a result of the show's changes.

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I hope those who always complain about Dany being perfect and flawless are happier now, because she looked like a total idiot in this episode. The son of a slavemaster claims his father was totally innocent in the deaths of the children and she believes him instantly because slave masters are such honest people who always say the truth, right? Giving in so easily will make her look weak and manipulable to the Meereense nobles.

Then the goat herder says Drogon killed all his livestock when we clearly saw that he only took single goat the rest got away. Of course Dany doesn't question this and promises him three times the worth of all his animals in gold. Barristan gives her a look like 'Are you stupid?'. She never asks for proof. How did the goat herder get the bones when Drogon carried his prey off into the far away mountains? Now when the word spreads that Dany is paying gold for animal bones, people can just burn their livestock, bring it to her and make some big cash (I think that's what happens in ADWD, correct me if I'm wrong), it was a really dumb move. They are really showing her as a bad and naive ruler from the moment she sits on the bench.

Because all slave-owners were terrible people who would crucify children, right? I doubt he was lying, and it's sort of ridiculous to call him that just to absolve Dany of making a mistake she shouldn't have made. If she has the time to sit on the throne and see over 200 people, she should have made the time to judge the Masters fairly. But instead she let emotions take control of her and she acted out of vengeance, and it is going to cost her dearly.

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Great episode. The trial made up for the scenes at the beginning with Ramsay Snow, Action Hero and the Python-esque 'run awayyyyyy' because the Ironborn can fight their way through the Dreadfort but can't handle a couple of dogs.

The real, book-Ironborn, would have killed/maimed Ramsay and his dogs before he had a chance to open the kennel latch. I mean, Ramsay is just standing there talking, exposing his unarmed and nekkid chest with all those lovely vital organs, and no Ironborn throws an axe, a dagger, draws a bow and shoots an arrow?

Unbelievable. :dunno:

But most of the episode was great, and Dinklage's Tyrion just killed it in the last few minutes (with help from Charles Dance, superb as usual). :bowdown:

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I've always been a proponent of the fan theory that Tywin was poisoned by Oberyn via Widows Blood. I am curious to see if the show would ever confirm this theory. Interesting... that Pycelle name dropped Widows Blood and the conclusion of the scene between Jaime and Tywin, he-Tywin- takes a long sip of wine. It could mean nothing but that shot did strike me a bit odd. I wonder if they're gonna have Tywin start to show symptoms and Oberyn give his line that "your lord father won't live forever"...

Yes I am really hoping for some hints at that theory, as well as the Euron hiring a FM to kill Balon theory.

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Not to bring up a sore and overdone topice, but was it just me or does Meryn F-ing Trant look a little too wimpy to have beaten Syrio, broken wooden sword or not, after all? He's like Rast with armor.


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I hope those who always complain about Dany being perfect and flawless are happier now, because she looked like a total idiot in this episode. The son of a slavemaster claims his father was totally innocent in the deaths of the children and she believes him instantly because slave masters are such honest people who always say the truth, right? Giving in so easily will make her look weak and manipulable to the Meereense nobles.

Then the goat herder says Drogon killed all his livestock when we clearly saw that he only took single goat the rest got away. Of course Dany doesn't question this and promises him three times the worth of all his animals in gold. Barristan gives her a look like 'Are you stupid?'. She never asks for proof. How did the goat herder get the bones when Drogon carried his prey off into the far away mountains? Now when the word spreads that Dany is paying gold for animal bones, people can just burn their livestock, bring it to her and make some big cash (I think that's what happens in ADWD, correct me if I'm wrong), it was a really dumb move. They are really showing her as a bad and naive ruler from the moment she sits on the bench.

I think that's kinda the point though. And IMO, Dany is probably most likeable when she's fucking up. When things go well for her she gets a bit big-headed and obnoxious, but when things go poorly for her, the fundamentally decent side of her comes out and she's more sympathetic.

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I think that the show tries to redeem the Lannisters, specifially Tyrion and Jaime.



Having watched the show, the first season portrayed their bad qualities, but now they both look a lot more human and caring.


Do you agree with this statement or do I sympathise with Tyrion just because of the unfair trial?



However, I think that the Lannisters will be annihilated in the future (maybe Cersei and her children) by their enemies.


There was a small hint at the Iron Bank of Braavos, regarding the age of Tywin, 67, which foreshadows that the realm is beyond its prime.

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It's almost like horses are being changed mid stream. I know the Asha/Yara was big and unexpected to end last season but to hangs us out for 'What about your brother." " He s dead" was lame. I love a good fight , but that storyline to replace Kingsmoot? Now is she going to run around the north til Stannis shows, maybe Iron Born could head down to the Twins beat up the Freys for what they did to the King in the North.

Give me an hour of Tyrion and Jon and I'll be happy.

Who said that storyline meant no Kingsmoot? It was simply filler until they get to that point. Doesn't mean it will definitely happen (it better!) but it certainly doesn't rule it out either. That's AFFC material aka season 5.

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Because all slave-owners were terrible people who would crucify children, right? I doubt he was lying, and it's sort of ridiculous to call him that just to absolve Dany of making a mistake she shouldn't have made. If she has the time to sit on the throne and see over 200 people, she should have made the time to judge the Masters fairly. But instead she let emotions take control of her and she acted out of vengeance, and it is going to cost her dearly.

Side note, it's worth pointing out that whether he was lying or not is actually kind of irrelevant. The point is that Dany, in her zeal, had not considered the possibility of the scenario that Hizdahr zo Loraq was presenting her. Whether Hizzy's father, in particular, was actually a good dude doesn't make much difference, because the thrust of that scene in terms of Dany's characterization is that she struggles to conceptualize complex moral issues.

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Side note, it's worth pointing out that whether he was lying or not is actually kind of irrelevant. The point is that Dany, in her zeal, had not considered the possibility of the scenario that Hizdahr zo Loraq was presenting her. Whether Hizzy's father, in particular, was actually a good dude doesn't make much difference, because the thrust of that scene in terms of Dany's characterization is that she struggles to conceptualize complex moral issues.

Yeah, we don't know whether Hizdahr's dad said those things or not, but Dany doesn't either, because she never bothered to look into the individual nature of the people she was crucifying.

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:) Cheers to that! And this..."The babies she wanted." is of course, Cersei's biggest triumphant manipulation of the system!

Personally I think that there won't be a witness. It will just be Sansa and Baelish. This is my guess for the last scene this season. Bye bye Lysa.

If it is just the two of them, how do they talk away the fact that Lysa is now dead? Someone is going to get the blame for that - if it is just the two of them in the room it has to be one of them.

How the heck did Varys find "residue" of the strangler potion on the stones in Sansa's necklace? Did he have a microscope or other sophisticated lab equipment, or does the strangler potion have a particular color?

The same way it was found in the book - there was a purple smear in the necklace, in the show there probably was a blue smear.

Apparently.

Understanding that those passing judgement aren't at all concerned about justice, I'm confused as to what events are supposed to have transpired. Wherever Sansa and Dontos met up with LittleFinger, it took them hours to get there - yet apparently they were still close enough that Dontos's body was sure to be discovered.

Beyond that, what conclusion is one to draw from a dead Dontos with a crossbow bolt sticking out of his face and a poison necklace laying on his torso. That Sansa betrayed and killed him, then betrayed Tyrion and incriminated herself by leaving Joffrey's murder weapon on Dontos's corpse?

Agreed, this trial is for Tyrion and Sansa has been named, but given that they found the body (somehow) and the necklace it would seem important enough to bring up that she is still being looked for.

tywin is afraid that jaimie will be chosen by tyrion (and will accept) and that that's the end of the lannister line

why would Tywin be afraid Jaime will be chosen? He only has one hand and even though no one is supposed to know how bad he is, everyone does know he was right handed.

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