Books 5-6 Spoilers: How does Stannis early wealth will affect his further dynamics?

[Señor de la Tormenta]

He has more men (4000 against 1500), more ships, and now actual chests of gold before going to the wall.... how will this change his relationship with Jon and his later northener campaign?

He is a stronger player way before we ve seen in the books.

And, are we now supposed to believe Massey wont betray him.in the books and that he is going to reach a stronger position than what he has now?

Or will they skip his later northen support to leave him just the same.

[Lord Damian]

Stannis will still be rejected. Remember, the Iron Bank will stay with Tywin, when he dies, the go to meet Cersei to "measure her up" and to see if she will be reliable. That is when they go to Stannis. Stannis will end up at the wall this season because he cannot stay at Dragonston or Storm's End. He has no where else to go and must do something Kingly before he is forgotten.

[TallTyrionLannister]

Stannis will still be rejected. Remember, the Iron Bank will stay with Tywin, when he dies, the go to meet Cersei to "measure her up" and to see if she will be reliable. That is when they go to Stannis. Stannis will end up at the wall this season because he cannot stay at Dragonston or Storm's End. He has no where else to go and must do something Kingly before he is forgotten.

They didn't reject him, they gave him chests of gold.

The show has let us known time and time again that the Battle of the Blackwater did a number on the Baratheon army, I think this money + more ships and a bigger army is to make his presence in the north feel as if it has more weight behind it. I like that, as a Stannis man.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I guess it could maybe have repercussions much later. Like, I assume that while they were in Braavos they hired some sellswords to take to the Wall, as Davos suggested in an early episode (about the sellswords, not the Wall part)

So I think maybe later there won't be any reason for Massey to go back to Essos. If Massey even makes the cut, that is

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

i still think we'll see some of the same interactions between stannis and jon at the wall. (stannis offering him winterfell and jon giving him advice on how to rally the northerners)

[Batman]

It sort of takes away the resolve and ingenuity that I loved to see from Stannis so much. The fact that not matter how bad things got he would keep coming after you. Giving him more men, more ships and the support of the Iron Bank so early means that he does not have to struggle so long or so hard. The guy was like the Terminator, there was no hint of relent in Stannis Baratheon. They have not written him well, so thank god for Stephen Dilane actually putting in quality performance.

[Mad Monkey]

Stannis might start to become a little more flamboyant. Perhaps by purchasing a gilded, jewel=encrusted sword with a naked woman carved on its hilt, or obtaining lots of purple hair dye from Lys.

[SheRa Seastar]

We don't know how much the Iron bank lent him, it could well have been just a couple of bits of gold, enough to get salador saan involved again

[The Drunkard]

Well, I suppose he can immediately garrison, repair and resupply all the castles at the Wall, but that would diminish the need to have the NW, wildlings and southerners all working together, which was an important realization for Stannis and Jon. The weirdest part for me is his four thousand men. That's more than triple the men he has in the books, and I think a fair bit more than Roose has according to the show. So that lessens the desperation of his current position, as well as his future need to appeal to the northerners rather than just demand their service.

I hope he still visits the mountain clans, or some miscellaneous northern castle/s.

[titanx5]

He has more men (4000 against 1500), more ships, and now actual chests of gold before going to the wall.... how will this change his relationship with Jon and his later northener campaign?

He is a stronger player way before we ve seen in the books.

And, are we now supposed to believe Massey wont betray him.in the books and that he is going to reach a stronger position than what he has now?

Or will they skip his later northen support to leave him just the same.

1) I dont know where you presume Massey is going to betray Stannis, Its not Massey's gold its the IB and sorry I dont think anyone wants to screw over the IB and put a target on their back. Not everyone just suddenly betrays someone just because they are ambitious, but this discussion has been mentioned tons of times before

2) We dont know how much gold the IB gave Stannis, I was surprised that he said 4000 men, I thought he had virtually nothing of how they played it in the show. However lets say he gets another 4000 men. Thats 8000 men against 100 000 Wildlings, thats still an impressive victory regardless.

3) In terms of the Northern support I think they will all support him and go straight for WF. He will probably loose a lot of men in the snow storms

[Epyon]

I'm not there in the books yet, but does 1500 include the men he takes to the wall AND the forces he'd still have at Dragonstone? As I recall, someone would have to be there to dump oil on Loras (though admittedly leaving more than half your men behind would be ...strange...)

[ovis alba]

I'm not sure if it changes much or if it does I'm not sure I mind (depends how it plays out).

I think it actually nicely sets up a moment of surprise as people can assume that he would probably have the forces to attack King's Landing again. So his decision to go to the wall doesn't come of as "he had no other choice anyhow" but as a deliberatly made decision against King's Landing and for the wall.

[MidnightKiss]

I found it really odd that the Iron Bank gave Stannis gold when they were already supporting the current king on the Iron Throne. So they've lent money to both sides? And the only reason given is that Tywin is a bit old?

Even though he's healthy and could easily last for many years guiding Tommen until he's a strong ruler. There is already a good alliance with Highgarden and their gold, some of which can be used to pay the Iron Bank.

Why start a new war?

[Red Tiger]

I found it really odd that the Iron Bank gave Stannis gold when they were already supporting the current king on the Iron Throne. So they've lent money to both sides? And the only reason given is that Tywin is a bit old?

Even though he's healthy and could easily last for many years guiding Tommen until he's a strong ruler. There is already a good alliance with Highgarden and their gold, some of which can be used to pay the Iron Bank.

Why start a new war?

It's heavily implied that the crown has owed the Iron Bank money for years and they haven't seen any money yet. So now they're backing Stannis, under the condition that once he attains power he will pay back both loans.

[Gneisenau]

Correct me if I am wrong, but perhaps the IB only gave Stannis a small loan, I think Davos gave Saan silver coins ?

[MidnightKiss]

So now they're backing Stannis, under the condition that once he attains power he will pay back both loans.

I realise this from the books/sample chapters but I didn't get any of that from the episode.

Also, although the crown doesn't have any money, the Iron Bank would surely realise that with Highgarden marrying into the throne they would bring gold with them? Why wouldn't the Iron Bank simply say to the crown, "start paying us when you get your Highgarden gold or we'll back Stannis"?

[Lord Thornhart]

And, are we now supposed to believe Massey wont betray him.in the books and that he is going to reach a stronger position than what he has now?

What makes you think Massey will betray him?

[King Zee]

They didn't reject him, they gave him chests of gold.

we dont know that..

We know they gave him one chest which was ised to pay Salladhor.

The IB has given Stannis some money but I doubt they've given him the vast credit he requires or will get once Cersei mucks things up.

[Stormland's Fury]

I'm not there in the books yet, but does 1500 include the men he takes to the wall AND the forces he'd still have at Dragonstone? As I recall, someone would have to be there to dump oil on Loras (though admittedly leaving more than half your men behind would be ...strange...)

He leaves a garrison both at Dragonstone and at Storm's End, but the rest all follow to the Wall IIRC. I think those don't count as the ones who fight the Wildlings.

[Nyrhex]

I'm not there in the books yet, but does 1500 include the men he takes to the wall AND the forces he'd still have at Dragonstone? As I recall, someone would have to be there to dump oil on Loras (though admittedly leaving more than half your men behind would be ...strange...)

Stannis had at that time 1,600 men total. A strong garrison of 300 at Storm's End, a token force on Dragonstone, and slightly less than 1,300 men go with him to the Wall.