Van West Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yeah Stephen is good. Under a lesser actor TV Stannis would be complete shit But I dunno what's there to praise about this episode of Stannis. He didn't do or say much. Davos is the one that came off as good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 They still had the black water music though when we first saw Stannis on ship. I actually like the music but there's no other way to interpret it other than villianish. Stannis has 4k men, with the gold he will surely double that #. His triumph at the wall is going to be less glorious then it should be. Wildings outnumber Stannis 20-1 in book. He probably won't be able to take every soldier from Dragonstone with him. And even if he does get a boost in troops, 8,000 against 100,000 is still a pretty hefty win. I'm not worried about the numbers so much, it's more about how they portray his victory cinematically that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jslay427 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 He probably won't be able to take every soldier from Dragonstone with him. And even if he does get a boost in troops, 8,000 against 100,000 is still a pretty hefty win. I'm not worried about the numbers so much, it's more about how they portray his victory cinematically that matters. Agreed, but his victory isn't just about him riding to save the realm. It's also about him showing himself as a great tactician and commander. And out of the 100k Wildings I think only 20-30k of them are fighters in the books if I'm not mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Agreed, but his victory isn't just about him riding to save the realm. It's also about him showing himself as a great tactician and commander. And out of the 100k Wildings I think only 20-30k of them are fighters in the books if I'm not mistaken. You're totally right, but the show canon is playing fast and loose with troop numbers, seeing as they've played up how hopelessly outnumbered the Night's Watch is. At least from the dialogue given, we're supposed to get the impression that there's 100k soldiers marching on the Wall, which bodes well for showing Stannis as a competent battle commander, which was of course played up tonight in Davos' speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wookiee Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well, its not like a 100% good scene. IB is left as pretty dumb. They are playing both sides now? of course Cersei wont pay them is they back Stannis. It's not Cersei. It's the crown, and Tywin. Also, you pay the Iron Bank. EVERYONE pays the Iron Bank. Remember that it's been stated that people have killed themselves and disowned their families when they couldn't pay the Iron Bank. I don't think the IB really cares if the Lannisters and the Iron Throne *want* to pay. They have people for that. IB's only concern is whether the people they're loaning money to will be able to pay it back. And I loved Stannis in this one. He was so very Stannis. You have to remember the core of Stannis is that he's the rightful king, and the "Baratheons" are all disgusting pretenders. He expects everyone to understand that, because it's amazingly bloody simple. "King died. Next oldest son becomes King. How is this hard for you?" But yeah, Davos. Stannis without Davos is screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis-the-Mannis Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The IB can use the line of credit to Stannis as leverage on the Lannisters. "Pay up or we'll forward this guy more gold and really turn him into a problem for you" It's annoying that Stannis never comes up with any bright ideas of his own in the show, but this scene didn't call for him to do it. It would have been out of place if he playing himself up to the bankers, that just isn't what he does. If anything, it was nice for Davos to remind non-book readers why he's with Stannis in the first place. Most people have no idea why such a nice guy is allied to the brainless witless loser that show Stannis was turned into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAndFullOfTurnips Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Well, its not like a 100% good scene. IB is left as pretty dumb. They are playing both sides now? of course Cersei wont pay them is they back Stannis. I think you're supposed to deduce, even though they kind of spell it out for you, that the IB doesn't believe the Iron Throne is paying them back, probably because they haven't yet and Tywin is near the end of his life. So like typical IB mentality they'll aid a man to take over who will pay them back. That's the point, they're convinced Stannis will pay them if they help him. Not so different from the books except that the Lannisters haven't outright refused them yet which is honestly sort of evident anyways since they've been indebted for so long already. The IB can use the line of credit to Stannis as leverage on the Lannisters. "Pay up or we'll forward this guy more gold and really turn him into a problem for you" It's annoying that Stannis never comes up with any bright ideas of his own in the show, but this scene didn't call for him to do it. It would have been out of place if he playing himself up to the bankers, that just isn't what he does. If anything, it was nice for Davos to remind non-book readers why he's with Stannis in the first place. Most people have no idea why such a nice guy is allied to the brainless witless loser that show Stannis was turned into. Honestly Stannis had zero good ideas at this point of the books anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 ep5 " You dont just walk into the IB and ask to see a rep." -Tywin ( paraphrase) ep6 Well, Stannis does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 If anything, it was nice for Davos to remind non-book readers why he's with Stannis in the first place. Most people have no idea why such a nice guy is allied to the brainless witless loser that show Stannis was turned into. This. Which is why it'll be all the more surprising for the Unsullied when this douchebag/puppet they haven't cared about since season 2 starts kicking ass and taking names up north. Saving the Wall is going to be his turning point. I am now 100% convinced. They might make him look more evil than they should once he starts intervening in the politics of the Night Watch but right now I dn't even give a shit, because its just so refreshing to see him hanging out with Davos and not being shown as merely a religous fanatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Abominable SnowOther Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 This. Which is why it'll be all the more surprising for the Unsullied when this douchebag/puppet they haven't cared about since season 2 starts kicking ass and taking names up north. Saving the Wall is going to be his turning point. I am now 100% convinced. They might make him look more evil than they should once he starts intervening in the politics of the Night Watch but right now I dn't even give a shit, because its just so refreshing to see him hanging out with Davos and not being shown as merely a religous fanatic. this. Were sure to get a lot of that in the Wall rescue. No Mel is good for Stannis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanml82 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 ep5 " You dont just walk into the IB and ask to see a rep." -Tywin ( paraphrase) ep6 Well, Stannis does... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Also, because no one has commented on this yet, I think Davos is almost certainly confirmed as going to the Wall with the rest of Team Dragonstone. It's way too late in the season to introduce the Manderly plotline, and if they keep it at all, it won't be until early in season 5. I'm really excited for the possibility of a Davos-Jon dialogue, because they're two characters we never see together. Still leaves open the possibility for the cart before the horse line too. They've kept a lot of Stannis' more important lines, even if they have changed the context here and there to make him look like a dick, so I think we might at least get some version of it in episode 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross2013 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 This. Which is why it'll be all the more surprising for the Unsullied when this douchebag/puppet they haven't cared about since season 2 starts kicking ass and taking names up north. Saving the Wall is going to be his turning point. I am now 100% convinced. They might make him look more evil than they should once he starts intervening in the politics of the Night Watch but right now I dn't even give a shit, because its just so refreshing to see him hanging out with Davos and not being shown as merely a religous fanatic. I can't help but think D&D are going to twist his arrival at the Wall and put him in conflict with Jon...like it will be Mel and Stannis invading the Wall and imposing their own kind of tyranny up there until Jon "tricks" Stannis into attacking Winterfell (they'll probably skip Moat Caitlin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbringer Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Stephen Dillane is the shit. It's the writing that's the problem. Oddly enough, the nuance that's missing from the writing is only mildly tolerable because of the complexity he brings to the character in his performance. Yeah totally agree. Dillane nails what he's given, but you cant make silk handkerchief out of a sow's ear. Poor Stannis, he's definitely had the Denethor treatment here (x 10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicagostatecougars Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 I can't help but think D&D are going to twist his arrival at the Wall and put him in conflict with Jon...like it will be Mel and Stannis invading the Wall and imposing their own kind of tyranny up there until Jon "tricks" Stannis into attacking Winterfell (they'll probably skip Moat Caitlin) This, Not gonna let my guard down yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Hand of the King Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 have you read his last chapters or the WOWs one? Best Stannis we ve ever seen, and without Mel and Davos. So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Señor de la Tormenta Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Also, because no one has commented on this yet, I think Davos is almost certainly confirmed as going to the Wall with the rest of Team Dragonstone. It's way too late in the season to introduce the Manderly plotline, and if they keep it at all, it won't be until early in season 5. I'm really excited for the possibility of a Davos-Jon dialogue, because they're two characters we never see together. Still leaves open the possibility for the cart before the horse line too. They've kept a lot of Stannis' more important lines, even if they have changed the context here and there to make him look like a dick, so I think we might at least get some version of it in episode 10.Davos does go to the wall in the books to. We just lack of a POV mentioning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Yeah totally agree. Dillane nails what he's given, but you cant make silk handkerchief out of a sow's ear. Poor Stannis, he's definitely had the Denethor treatment here (x 10). No treatment is as bad as what Jackson did to Denethor. At least with Stannis we have some scenes (such as those with Shireen, and when he frees Davos from the dungeons) highlighting that he's a conflicted moral figure, and not just an unrepetent tyrant. I will say that like Stannis, Denethor's sense of duty to the realm was replaced almost entirely with lust for power, but the difference is that Stannis is still a competent commander, at least during season 2. Denethor on the other hand doesn't know where his armies are, doesn't want to call to Gondor for aid, and is actually using the the lost seeing stones to spy on those he thinks are trying to usurp his reign. In the books, Denethor drives himself insane trying to SAVE Gondor using the Palantri, and has been actively fighting Mordor his entire life. It's even mentioned that he's a seasoned warrior, who only gave up a more proactive role on the field in order to better rule the kingdom. Instead we get a guy sending Faramir on suicide missions, (that are tactically sound in the books) and eating chicken while his troops get murked. I think that while Stannis has been given the short end of the stick where writing is concerned, he's not so far gone that he can't be redeemed. It all depends on how the shit at Castle Black goes down. The showrunners haven't proven to me that they intend to completely betray the books, which is why I think that Jon's POV, where he comes to sympathize with Stannis and his cause, is going to go a long way in showing the Unsullied that there's a hell of a lot more to him than what we saw in season 3. I might be too optimistic at the moment, but whatever. Someone from our camp has to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilJonUmber Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Also, because no one has commented on this yet, I think Davos is almost certainly confirmed as going to the Wall with the rest of Team Dragonstone. It's way too late in the season to introduce the Manderly plotline, and if they keep it at all, it won't be until early in season 5. I'm really excited for the possibility of a Davos-Jon dialogue, because they're two characters we never see together. Still leaves open the possibility for the cart before the horse line too. They've kept a lot of Stannis' more important lines, even if they have changed the context here and there to make him look like a dick, so I think we might at least get some version of it in episode 10. They made it a point to show Wendel and his Merman brooch at the RW. They won't expect anyone to remember him, but they'll flash back to him before the episode starts when necessary. No way the Manderlys are cut out of the show, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelastactionhero Posted May 12, 2014 Author Share Posted May 12, 2014 Davos does go to the wall in the books to. We just lack of a POV mentioning him. For some reason I thought he sent Davos immediately to White Harbor when Stannis goes to the Wall, which is why there's no Davos-Jon interactions. Either way, it's clear he'll have a more active role there before being sent on his mission, whatever that may be in this adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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