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(BEWARE SPOILERS) "...A Thousand Lying Whores..."


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Well boys and girls that was an interesting trial to finally see...I wonder if the rest of you found it as enjoyable as i did.



Let's break it down...



I thoroughly enjoyed the bit between Jamie and Tywin...I had often wondered about book-Kevin's visit to Tyrion and the promise that he could go to the wall...this little addition of Jamie promising to give Tywin his hearts desire, a true heir to the Rock, and then Jamie's words to Tyrion made up for the loss of Kevin. Though I am concerned about Kevin's future roll, as it was written...I am guessing he is another casualty of the show's time constraints.



I also enjoyed the bit about Varys and his not forgetting his words about saving the city...I get the feeling that he will do his bit to help Tyrion when the time comes...



all in all a good episode that stayed on point with the story...except for Stannis...and I for one am happy for this addition. It shows that Davos is the savior of Stannis and his ability to perhaps...go North...



...of course these are just the musings of this salty old asshole...



...what say the rest of you... :smoking:



eta: for the spelling gestapo...

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I really liked the trial. They did a very good job. I particularly liked how with Shae it was hard to tell if she really was just a lying whore the whole time or if she was being forced to say everything, because that was the same feeling I got when reading that part in the books. Or at least, I've always thought it was meant to seem that way.


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I really liked the trial. They did a very good job. I particularly liked how with Shae it was hard to tell if she really was just a lying whore the whole time or if she was being forced to say everything, because that was the same feeling I got when reading that part in the books. Or at least, I've always thought it was meant to seem that way.

when i first read the books i thought that as well right up until the moment Tryion finds her at the crucial moment...after that i felt no sympathy for her...she was just trying to improve her station since Tyrion was trying to be loyal to Sansa...after the moment in the show where he refused her she might have been loyal, after that...all bets were off

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It was interesting how the bit with TV Shae was left ambiguous. She did seem genuinely nervous. Was she coerced? Did she act out of mercenary concerns? Out of spite? Was her testimony bought, or forced? Was she just putting on a good show of being scared, to make her story more convincing? As with the PW and with the RW on the show, we might get explanations after the fact making it very clear what TV Shae's deal was, why she did what she did, and who if anyone was behind her testimony.



I did like Jaime trying to make a deal to save Tyrion's life (and Tywin smugly quaffing his wine afterwards as Jaime had no doubt played right into his hands). PD's being praised for the episode and rightly so, but NCW was fantastic.



Another interesting change from the books is that Sansa's guilt seemed a lot more stark (no pun intended) in the show than in the books. I have no doubt that Littlefinger intended the necklace and Dontos' body to be discovered, to cement Sansa's guilt. I wonder if that will be important in the books down the road. It seems to be taken for granted in the fandom that the still-standing charges against Sansa will cease to be an issue once Cersei is permanently removed from power.


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I really liked the trial, well done by charles dance, NCW, and Peter Dinklage, all three gave convincing performances. Also I was really glad to see the whole "have Tyrion join the NW" was legitimised, I've often felt in the minority in thinking Tywin was being sincere. I think this reinforces it.



I also liked the Stannis and Davos in Braavos scene. Nice to see Davos shine, nice to see Stannis outside of the religious context, nice to see Braavos.



Wasn't a huge fan of the Iron Born raid on the Dreadfort scene though. Another show created subplot serving no purpose. They are becoming more numerous and more poorly done this season.


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Also I was really glad to see the whole "have Tyrion join the NW" was legitimised, I've often felt in the minority in thinking Tywin was being sincere. I think this reinforces it.

Book and show are vastly different at this point.

TV Tywin is not Book Tywin.

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Shae is so vile. I dont care who knows it, i fucking hate her and always will. I have to give the actress props for being somewhat decent for once. She knew that was a big scene for her character so she mustered effort. Personally, all that shit about Sansa was sheer spite. I do think she was coerced by Tywin and Cersei both.



As for the trial, Dinklage rocked ass with his speech. A thousand lying whores may be "where do whores go" for the show. Maybe.


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It was interesting how the bit with TV Shae was left ambiguous. She did seem genuinely nervous. Was she coerced? Did she act out of mercenary concerns? Out of spite? Was her testimony bought, or forced? Was she just putting on a good show of being scared, to make her story more convincing? As with the PW and with the RW on the show, we might get explanations after the fact making it very clear what TV Shae's deal was, why she did what she did, and who if anyone was behind her testimony.

I did like Jaime trying to make a deal to save Tyrion's life (and Tywin smugly quaffing his wine afterwards as Jaime had no doubt played right into his hands). PD's being praised for the episode and rightly so, but NCW was fantastic.

Another interesting change from the books is that Sansa's guilt seemed a lot more stark (no pun intended) in the show than in the books. I have no doubt that Littlefinger intended the necklace and Dontos' body to be discovered, to cement Sansa's guilt. I wonder if that will be important in the books down the road. It seems to be taken for granted in the fandom that the still-standing charges against Sansa will cease to be an issue once Cersei is permanently removed from power.

well said...and i also wonder how that will play out in future books, since the hair net wasn't tossed into the boat, in my memory, which granted has the holding capacity of a bucket with no bottom...will Sansa be vindicated or condemned further by the necklace...and did I notice the young Queen-to-be feeling slightly anxious when talk turned to the necklace...

Book and show are vastly different at this point.

TV Tywin is not Book Tywin.

I don't think they are vastly different...just a few subtle changes to enhance the visual verses the imagined world...in my not so humble opinion... :smoking:

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Shae is so vile. I dont care who knows it, i fucking hate her and always will. I have to give the actress props for being somewhat decent for once. She knew that was a big scene for her character so she mustered effort. Personally, all that shit about Sansa was sheer spite. I do think she was coerced by Tywin and Cersei both.

As for the trial, Dinklage rocked ass with his speech. A thousand lying whores may be "where do whores go" for the show. Maybe.

Ditto about Shae, Ditto underlined. She may have been coerced by T and C, but, damn, she really carried it to the extreme. Seemed to me she put her own cruel little twists on it to humiliate Tyrion, with relish. I think D and D are counting on that last scene between Tyrion and Shae where he did tell her she was a whore, only to get her to leave for her own good, to somewhat 'justify' her testimony for the unsullied.

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Humiliating and seeking revenge on Tyrion for rejecting her is one thing, but throwing Sansa, the girl she once said she would kill for, under the bus as well? Not cool (assuming no coercion).


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Humiliating and seeking revenge on Tyrion for rejecting her is one thing, but throwing Sansa, the girl she once said she would kill for, under the bus as well? Not cool (assuming no coercion).

She's a massive idiot if she couldn't see the true motive behind Tyrion's "rejection."

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She's a massive idiot if she couldn't see the true motive behind Tyrion's "rejection."

True, but to be fair to TV Shae, Tyrion swore up and down that he loved her, that his marriage to Sansa meant nothing, and that their relationship could continue--remember his big talk in 3x07 about setting up Shae in a nice house and providing for any children he fathered on her, which certainly implied that he saw a long-term, continuing relationship with her--only to wind up doing what she feared he would do for quite some time: reject her in favour of his marriage to Sansa. No wonder she's pissed.

It also seems implied in the 4x01 scene that TV Tyrion was already passive-aggressively inching out of his relationship with Shae by the time Varys warned him and led him to take a more direct approach, which probably fueled Shae's bitterness.

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She's a massive idiot if she couldn't see the true motive behind Tyrion's "rejection."

Well, she is a massive idiot. Remember the end of season 3, when Varys pays her a lot to leave?

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She's a massive idiot if she couldn't see the true motive behind Tyrion's "rejection."

I don't necessarily think so. Shae had been feeling neglected by Tyrion for awhile now, due to his recent lack of interest in sex with her, and I think this kind of rejection was something she had started to fear. She was a common whore who suddenly found herself with a royal life. It would be natural for her to be paranoid that it was too good to be true, after a life of being made promises by men who just wanted to use her. I don't think, given Tyrion's recent ambiguous behavior towards her, it would be natural for her to come to the conclusion that he was doing it out of love. Its only natural for US to come to that conclusion because we are shown the dialogue with other people regarding his true feelings for her. But from her viewpoint, I think it's reasonable that she felt she had been genuinely rejected.

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All talks of whitewashing will have to be put on hold if Tyrion kills a Shae who was coerced, which is the feel I got from her seeming apprehension.

This. She really did seem nervous and scared...although maybe she was just "nervous" because she was trying to pass off her lies as truth. Her "nervousness" could just have been shiftiness.

With that said, there's a scene from the Season 4 trailer of her lounging on a bed with not a care in the world--shot in the dark, so not the 4x01 scene--so...

TV Shae was also dressed very nicely in her scene in 4x06. She seemed to be wearing a dead ringer for one of Sansa's old gowns, and she was wearing a pretty little gold necklace that she wasn't wearing before. Maybe this was a bit of a visual tipoff that TV Shae was profiting from her testimony.

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