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Was Jaime right to push Bran?


KingslayerHodor

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I don't think there are any circumstances in which it is right to try to murder a young innocent child. Maybe some people find it understandable, because Jaime was saving his own skin and that of Cersei and their children. But that doesn't make it right.


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I don't think there are any circumstances in which it is right to try to murder a young innocent child. Maybe some people find it understandable, because Jaime was saving his own skin and that of Cersei and their children. But that doesn't make it right.

This is a little stupid to say, don't you think? Imagine the Others ordered Jon to kill an innocent child or they'd destroy the entire world. Seems justifiable in that case!

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Before Jaime pushed Bran, he was going to fall anyway. So, when initially Jaime saves Bran, Cersei's says 'what are you doing'. How exactly these words mean that she wanted Bran to be spared?

When Cersei wants something done, say, having Jaime chop off Arya's hand, she is explicit about it. I do not equate her asking Jaime what he was doing as an order to throw Bran off the tower. My own reading of the situation is that Cersei was panicking out of her mind and Jaime, as always, was impulsive. I very much doubt that Cersei had calmed down enough to think the situation through. Even had she finally decided on killing Bran, she was nowhere near that point when Jaime took matters into his own hands.

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Imagine a conversation between the Others and Jon and them telling him to kill a kid? That is silly. Jon would say "Take me instead" if such a silly conversation ever was to take place.

It doesn't make any difference if the situation is silly. All that matters is that it could happen. Objective morality doesn't change based on how silly a possible situation is.

No, the Others want that kid to die. They don't want Jon.

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:lmao:

Murder it's not the same as risking three children's lives. And there's possible scenarios where neither Bran or Jaime's children die: They could have accused Bran of making things up. They could have fled to the Free Cities and have a quiet life there. Hell, he could have even challenge Robert to a duel for Cersei and the fool would have accepted.

Trying to kill Bran was the cowardly thing to do.

if Ned Stark comes forward with an eye witness to the twincest (one of his kids who prolly doesn't make stuff up alot)....who in the seven kingdoms is calling him a liar?

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It doesn't make any difference if the situation is silly. All that matters is that it could happen. Objective morality doesn't change based on how silly a possible situation is.

No, the Others want that kid to die. They don't want Jon.

How do you compare a morally corrupt man pushing a child to save his sister/lover to someone having to save the world?

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First of all there is no excuse for pushing a 8 year old kid out of the window.The reason he did it wasn't a noble cause either, he doesn't give a shit about his "kids", he even suggest he would change his hand for Joff.Do you think they didn't know the risks of getting found there?They knew about the risks and they went along with it so that makes them even bigger monsters.I won't go into all that incest is bad thing but whatever they do in their spare time is their own business but to act so reckless for sake of pleasure is really stupid.


Do you really think Jaime cared about all those people that would have died if Bran spoke do you think he cares about those who died in WoT5K?He is disgusting, you know what actually Jaime is a worse man then Ramsey.Yes he is and I don't care about his recent change of heart.Do you guys realize he singlehandedly caused half of the realm die?


Don't use Jaime was actually thinking about his children and Cersei card everytime you want to whitewash him I suggest either use he saved KL card or actually there is no other card to play.


Jaime pushed Bran because he didn't want to stop having sex he didn't want to deal with the results of his disgusting actions, he did what he did best he broke the guest right(yes this was actually the first time guest right was broken) so I wish he dies in agony crying for forgiveness while Summer tears his remaining limbs just after making him watch his incestous bastards die the same way.


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First of all there is no excuse for pushing a 8 year old kid out of the window.The reason he did it wasn't a noble cause either, he doesn't give a shit about his "kids", he even suggest he would change his hand for Joff.Do you think they didn't know the risks of getting found there?They knew about the risks and they went along with it so that makes them even bigger monsters.I won't go into all that incest is bad thing but whatever they do in their spare time is their own business but to act so reckless for sake of pleasure is really stupid.

Do you really think Jaime cared about all those people that would have died if Bran spoke do you think he cares about those who died in WoT5K?He is disgusting, you know what actually Jaime is a worse man then Ramsey.Yes he is and I don't care about his recent change of heart.Do you guys realize he singlehandedly caused half of the realm die?

Don't use Jaime was actually thinking about his children and Cersei card everytime you want to whitewash him I suggest either use he saved KL card or actually there is no other card to play.

Jaime pushed Bran because he didn't want to stop having sex he didn't want to deal with the results of his disgusting actions, he did what he did best he broke the guest right(yes this was actually the first time guest right was broken) so I wish he dies in agony crying for forgiveness while Summer tears his remaining limbs just after making him watch his incestous bastards die the same way.

Hey, man don't hold it in like that. Just go ahead and tell us how you really feel. ;)

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How do you compare a morally corrupt man pushing a child to save his sister/lover to someone having to save the world?

You realize the argument you're making here is circular?

1. Jaime is morally corrupt.

2. Jaime pushed Bran out of the window.

3. If someone is morally corrupt and they push children out of the window, then they are morally corrupt.

Conclusion: Jaime is morally corrupt.

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How do you compare a morally corrupt man pushing a child to save his sister/lover to someone having to save the world?

the thing is making a bargain with a morally corrupt adversary (the others) may or may not solve the problem.Suppose that was how the others came at Craster. Sacrifice 1 male heir and we won't murder everyone in your keep. So he gives them one, but then they come back the next day and ask for more. Once he's able to justify killing the first for this reason, what about the second third or fourth. Also take into account that Cersei at that point is Jamie's world. He would do anything to protect what he values.....what a prick, this from the guy who saved 500K from the Mad King's wildfire plot. Get your priorities together Kingslayer.

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Hey, man don't hold it in like that. Just go ahead and tell us how you really feel. ;)

I just don't understand the reason for people supporting or trying to make sense to something like that.I really don't understand it.People cll Robb or Jon or even Ned idiots for every small thing they do wrong but when it is dany or jaime or rhaegar every mistake is actually a grand plan for the good of the people they hurt.COME ON

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if Ned Stark comes forward with an eye witness to the twincest (one of his kids who prolly doesn't make stuff up alot)....who in the seven kingdoms is calling him a liar?

No one would call Ned Stark a liar. They'd call Bran a liar.

Even Robert would hesitate to sentece to death his wife, borther in law and three potential children of him on the word of an eight year old.

And we know that Ned would do anything to avoid the murder of children. Even allowing Jaime and Cersei to escape with them. If Jaime thought before acting, he could have seen that he had other options.

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This is a little stupid to say, don't you think? Imagine the Others ordered Jon to kill an innocent child or they'd destroy the entire world. Seems justifiable in that case!

I'm failing to see the point of this thread anymore. What are you trying to get at? That in the moment, yes, Jamie pushed Bran to keep his own family safe. I understand that.

Now, may I consider the other actions that led to that point? Are you asking us to judge Jamie ONLY in that moment? I understand that maybe you are encouraging people to be more open-minded about why, in the moment, he did such a deplorable act.

But if I can look at this without trapping myself in an isolated moment in time, then IMO, he knowingly took a huge risk (repeatedly), he got busted, and then did some low-down shit to get out of it. What else do we need to discuss? From there it's up to each individual to shape their own opinion of Jamie.

Your incessant defense of a viewpoint that is becoming exceedingly obscure is making it VERY hard for me to not get myself banned on my second day as a member of this forum. Time for me to go back to pondering White Walker society. Best of luck on your crusade, brother.

Tl;DR- I need a damn drink.

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But if I can look at this without trapping myself in an isolated moment in time, then IMO, he knowingly took a huge risk (repeatedly), he got busted, and then did some low-down shit to get out of it.

This was already addressed.

Many people have argued that Jaime was wrong in pushing Bran out of the window simply because he was risking an affair with Cersei, since they were risking the lives of their family and themselves. Now, I don't want to deny that Jaime and Cersei were foolish in doing this. But I think this is wholly irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they were having an affair, because it doesn't change the value of Jaime's action at that very moment. That is, his having a risky affair with Cersei doesn't make his family's lives any less valuable.

That in the moment, yes, Jamie pushed Bran to keep his own family safe.

Apparently nowadays it's wrong to protect your family...

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Regarding having sex at Winterfell, they've looked for the most secluded, unvisited spot in Winterfell. And they would have gotten away with it, just like they did every time, if not for the totally unpredictable climbing skills of Brandon Stark.



And Jaime answered with the first, simpler and safest action for him and his sister. He threw Bran out of the window - which would have worked if his idiot of a son didn't try to kill him afterwards.


Now, Jaime had other options, specially a trial by combat. Imagine Bran tells Ned what he saw, Ned understands it, brings it to Robert. Robert confronts Jaime, Jaime laughs at the child' story and demands, should Robert insist, a trial by combat. He most likely wins it, meaning the Gods vouch for his innocence.


But he didn't think about any other option.


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I haven't read this whole thread but immediately this needs to stop:



1) Jamie was protecting his family


2) Jamie was saving his 3 kids



That's complete bullshit. That Jamie strictly wanted 1 thing- to KEEP BANGING HIS SISTER IN PLACES WHERE HE COULD GET CAUGHT.



You need to stop being delusional with all this utilitarian blah blah crap. It was the act of a sociopath, se;fish beyond belief.


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Regarding having sex at Winterfell, they've looked for the most secluded, unvisited spot in Winterfell. And they would have gotten away with it, just like they did every time, if not for the totally unpredictable climbing skills of Brandon Stark.

And Jaime answered with the first, simpler and safest action for him and his sister. He threw Bran out of the window - which would have worked if his idiot of a son didn't try to kill him afterwards.

Now, Jaime had other options, specially a trial by combat. Imagine Bran tells Ned what he saw, Ned understands it, brings it to Robert. Robert confronts Jaime, Jaime laughs at the child' story and demands, should Robert insist, a trial by combat. He most likely wins it, meaning the Gods vouch for his innocence.

But he didn't think about any other option.

Yeah, since Jaime would think about all the possible consequences of an action in a couple minutes at most.... this is absurd.

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