Jump to content

American Civil War, yet again


NaarioDaharis

Recommended Posts

Oh I think it's all some southern pride thing that was definitely wrapped up with racism for a lot of older people and still is for some people of various ages, and then younger people want to have this sort of southern pride but don't want to confront the reality of what the confederate flag represents so... Or to try to make their position less offensive to others to gain converts. Or because they don't want to believe that g g g grandpa was so racist he fought for slavery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there's three motivations:

(1) Some people like a good old-fashioned Government Conspiracy (specifically the US Libertarian Right, who for reasons only known to them, identify with the Confederacy, and downplay the slavery element in favour of highbrow constitutionalism).

(2) If you hate federal legislation in general and Obama in particular, it's a nice retrospective grievance against the evil Federal Government to keep you warm at night - if only everything would be handed back to the States, everything would be OK.

I guess these make sense. I'm not sure why you would pick this issue to stand on, but I have a hard time really relating to people like this since they have emotions that are (in all seriousness) very foreign to me. This is something that seems to predate Obama's term in office too; I've had people make arguments nearly identical to the OP's decades ago. They even use the same talking points about Abraham Lincoln and states' rights, almost as if it's from a script.

(3) Some people in the South possibly regard it as a heritage thing. No-one likes to think their great-great-great-grandfather fought for slavery.

This one I can relate to, although honestly whitewashing history is a wasted effort. If you want to have Southern pride, why not focus on the things about the South in general or your home state in particular that are actually honorable and decent? Music, art, culture, famous statesmen? You can even celebrate Civil War generals noted for their prowess if you want to. There are few historical personages who lived wholly blameless lives but that doesn't mean that you can't celebrate the good about them. You can admire the Founding Fathers while still acknowledging that some of them owned slaves, for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RBPL's list makes sense in reverse order. The mah heritage worldview, the desire to regain control after Reconstruction, bred the modern states' rights movement. Libertarians are fellow travellers for whom the War Between the States was one step on the long road to statism.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The populace at large, however, was almost entirely pro-Union (british mill workers, dependant on confederate cotton, donated money to the Union) as was almost the entire of the political left: Garibaldi offered to lead the union armies. (Lincoln politely declined) Hecker enlisted, as did many other veterans of 1848 and others. The Union recieved many more volunteers than the confederacy did. Karl Marx wrote (actually pretty good) analyses of the war.

I did not know that. That's several kinds of interesting, and almost makes me wish he had accepted just to see what would have happened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not know that. That's several kinds of interesting, and almost makes me wish he had accepted just to see what would have happened.

To be fair, Guiseppe was making quite high demands (full command of the union armies, abolition of slavery be made the goal of the war and executed as soon as possible, etc.) Lincoln was apparently willing to go so far as to make him a Major-General though, but that didn't meet his standards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(3) Some people in the South possibly regard it as a heritage thing. No-one likes to think their great-great-great-grandfather fought for slavery.

I never understood this. My great-great-great-great grandfather was probably a misogynistc, classist guy who supported sati and child marriage. Hell my grandfather is an arrogant, misogynistic arsehole.

I however am not my ancestors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never understood this. My great-great-great-great grandfather was probably a misogynistc, classist guy who supported sati and child marriage. Hell my grandfather is an arrogant, misogynistic arsehole.

I however am not my ancestors.

Which just shows that you have no respect for your ancestors and your heritage! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, Guiseppe was making quite high demands (full command of the union armies, abolition of slavery be made the goal of the war and executed as soon as possible, etc.) Lincoln was apparently willing to go so far as to make him a Major-General though, but that didn't meet his standards.

And contrary to popular belief, no, the King of Siam did not offer Lincoln war elephants. It's one of things that is simply too cool to be true.

Somebody needs to write an alternative history where Giuseppe Garibaldi commands the Union's armies of Siamese war elephants as they face off against the Confederacy's deadly zorse cavalry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody needs to write an alternative history where Giuseppe Garibaldi commands the Union's armies of Siamese war elephants as they face off against the Confederacy's deadly zorse cavalry.

Indeed!

It could also involve John Wilkes BOOM!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody needs to write an alternative history where Giuseppe Garibaldi commands the Union's armies of Siamese war elephants as they face off against the Confederacy's deadly zorse cavalry.

I really want this book. No, I need it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree we shouldn't call it a Civil War. I would prefer it be called the Southern Slavers' Rebellion, but I suppose the War of Rebellion works well enough.



I think all monuments to Confederate war leaders and politicians should be torn down and the Confederate flag smeared with excrement wherever found in public.



I'm sorry you've chosen to defend an indefensible racist regime and to use such transparent, self-serving lies to do it. It will make me predisposed to think poorly of future arguments you make.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, the US was itself an indefensible racist regime for longer than the CSA. for consistency's sake, we should be tearing down the emblems of the surviving myopic patriotic imaginary and replacing them with cosmopolitan iconography.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

well, the US was itself an indefensible racist regime for longer than the CSA. for consistency's sake, we should be tearing down the emblems of the surviving myopic patriotic imaginary and replacing them with cosmopolitan iconography.

I can agree with this. I think Andrew Jackson, for example, should be taken off our currency.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...