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NBA Continued - Conference, Finals, and Beyond

Relic

By Relic,
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aeu Council Member

aeu

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They tried. Presti tried for both Bradley Beal and Klay Thompson, and was shot down on both fronts. They got a 20 ppg scorer and 3 first round picks.

I think the trade was pretty good for the Thunder, all things consider. What gets lost in the shuffle is how horribly the Thunder (and any team that drafts well) is screwed by the new CBA. If you draft multiple superstars, you're going to have a hard time keeping them, which is a shame. Teams should be rewarded for drafting well, not have to groom them for 4 years and let them go star elsewhere.

They got a 1 year rental on a potential 20 ppt scorer who plays no defense, doesn't rebound or assist. And 3 mid / late first round pics are not all that valuable, even if you are good at converting them. Particularly when you already have two of the top 10 (5?) players in the league and should be in the win-now mode.

Sure there were complicating factors, I'm sure a lot of teams thought they might not sign Harden long term, but there are complicating factors in each trade. Yet, people manage to get better return for lesser talent.

At the very least, they could have waited until the trade deadline. It's not like that Houston offer was going away.

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Jabronius Maximus Council Member

Jabronius Maximus

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Panic button is being smashed to bits.

From what I've seen, OKC tends to keep it safe when dealing with injuries (see Russ's extra surgeries and extensive missed time). It could just be that the initial announcement was very conservative--they even said he could play, but it would be risky.

That or it could just be a smokescreen to fool the Spurs a bit.

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Calibandar Council Member

Calibandar

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They got a 1 year rental on a potential 20 ppt scorer who plays no defense, doesn't rebound or assist. And 3 mid / late first round pics are not all that valuable, even if you are good at converting them. Particularly when you already have two of the top 10 (5?) players in the league and should be in the win-now mode.

Sure there were complicating factors, I'm sure a lot of teams thought they might not sign Harden long term, but there are complicating factors in each trade. Yet, people manage to get better return for lesser talent.

At the very least, they could have waited until the trade deadline. It's not like that Houston offer was going away.

All true. It might have been a bit more meaningful if Kevin Martin had had more years on that deal. Now you're left with nothing except a young backup center. The team is worse off in every way. It's not like the free space left by Harden's departure has led to any other signing of note. Perkins is still there because they traded Harden. Durant's now carrying an enormous load. By shifting Harden you force yourself to shift from Sefalosha to a different guard as well. Andsoforth.

As for Ibaba, I had hopes he would be back for the NBA finals if OKC made it. But against the Spurs even, that seems absurd. Even then it remains to be seen what shape he's in. The series looks totally done at this point.

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Sir Thursday Council Member

Sir Thursday

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All true. It might have been a bit more meaningful if Kevin Martin had had more years on that deal. Now you're left with nothing except a young backup center. The team is worse off in every way. It's not like the free space left by Harden's departure has led to any other signing of note. Perkins is still there because they traded Harden. Durant's now carrying an enormous load. By shifting Harden you force yourself to shift from Sefalosha to a different guard as well. Andsoforth.

As for Ibaba, I had hopes he would be back for the NBA finals if OKC made it. But against the Spurs even, that seems absurd. Even then it remains to be seen what shape he's in. The series looks totally done at this point.

One of the things you have to consider when analysing that trade was that the team still expected to be competing last year with Martin in the team. On paper, he was a perfect fit next to Durant and Westbrook - a player who scored but didn't need the ball in his hands. And OKC were favourites to return to the finals last year before Westbrook went down. That injury made the trade look a lot worse because it meant that Martin's presence was no longer meaningful (since it destroyed their chances of winning it all). If it hadn't been for Westbrook going down, I don't think signing Martin for a year would have been considered a waste (and I suspect he might have been more open to resigning).

Whenever you're looking at a trade, there is a temptation to only consider the now and the future. That's why people have looked at the Pau Gasol trade and said "Hey, it didn't turn out too bad for Memphis". But when they do that, they are forgetting that it on the other side of the scale it gave the Lakers three trips to the finals and two championships. So even with the renaissance the Grizzlies have had over the past few years, it was still an awful trade on balance. It's also easy to forget about last season when analysing the Harden trade (and understandable given that it didn't end well), but I think you have to bear that in mind when weighing up whether it was worth doing in the first place.

ST

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KalibakCruel Noble

KalibakCruel

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Yeah Fuck Ray Ray. I'm so tired of seeing the same shit every year. Why leave him open???

:O how can any living sports fan tire of Jesus Shuttlesworth and his beautiful jump shot.

Really though to answer your question, no idea. I think it's the shape he's in, he just runs around endlessly and finds an opening. I mean it's the only explanation. The other explanation is that normally very smart and good nba players decide that leaving the league's greatest 3 point shooter and future hall of famer is in the best interest of their teams...

Or he's using a glamour.

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Calibandar Council Member

Calibandar

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I just get bored watching these Miami vs Indiana games.

Indiana's offense is just........ mindnumbing. Miami never gets into full gear against Indiana so they're not much fun to watch either.
LeBron has these 20-25 points games in which he plays alright, but not once does he really go off. It's been that way for the whole Miami playoffs of course, but it doesn't look to change. Miami wins, probably wins the series as well, but it's hard to care when it's this dull to watch. I was actually glad Ray Allen was around to shoot some good 3's.

Didn't think I'd say this but at this point the Spurs have become much more watchable.

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Jabronius Maximus Council Member

Jabronius Maximus

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Looked like he was grimacing a bit, but I didn't notice much of a difference in his play. We'll really see how healthy he is soon enough, since games 4-7 all happen on every other day.

Spurs won't shoot 39% again though, that's for sure. I'm pretty sure they'll take game 4 without much trouble.

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KalibakCruel Noble

KalibakCruel

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Looked like he was grimacing a bit, but I didn't notice much of a difference in his play. We'll really see how healthy he is soon enough, since games 4-7 all happen on every other day.

Spurs won't shoot 39% again though, that's for sure. I'm pretty sure they'll take game 4 without much trouble.

Yeah for how badly they shot they didn't lose by much. I'm still rooting for the Thunder (really really really really don't want to see San Antonio in the finals) but chances are rid of the only game they win all series.

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Jabronius Maximus Council Member

Jabronius Maximus

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Yeah for how badly they shot they didn't lose by much. I'm still rooting for the Thunder (really really really really don't want to see San Antonio in the finals) but chances are rid of the only game they win all series.

It was a 20 point game when the starters were in it. The Spurs' 2nd/3rd unit hit some shots to cut the lead. It really wasn't close. I just expect SA to rebound in a big way.

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KalibakCruel Noble

KalibakCruel

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It was a 20 point game when the starters were in it. The Spurs' 2nd/3rd unit hit some shots to cut the lead. It really wasn't close. I just expect SA to rebound in a big way.

Ah I caught the ending, and when i checked the first half on my phone it wasn't a huge lead either. But yeah, I don't see the Spurs having a second straight bad night.

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David Selig Council Member

David Selig

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Spurs have had a lot of bad nights offensively against OKC when Ibaka is on the floor, he is really gotten into Parker's head, he plays completely differently than against any other defender. And Parker's drives are the key to San Antonio's offense. Plus Durant and Westbrook looked much better defensively, Brooks finally woke up and left Thabo on the bench the whole game and gave Lamb meaningful minutes, so I think OKC has a decent chance if Ibaka remains able to play at a high level and doesn't suffer an injury relapse.Spurs still the favourites, of course.


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