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Why not Stannis? [Possible WoW Spoilers]


mothbomb

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Is it possible that Stannis told Robert about the twincest and that's why he "fled" for Dragonstone? Robert might not have been as angry as everyone thinks about being cuckolded. It's not like he cared about Cersei. The marriage was always political. When Ned brings up Stannis as a possible Warden of the East, Robert looks uncomfortable. We know Robert didn't have the guts to challenge the Lannisters maybe that's why Stannis left. It doesn't make sense that he left because he feared assassination. It's not in his character.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Stannis has a quote where he says something along the lines of, "I couldn't tell Robert, he would never have believed me," and I think it is while being questioned why he never said anything sooner. I might be wrong, but I remember a conversation that went something like that. Maybe when Catelyn was there for Renly and Stannis' argument in the Stormlands.

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I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Stannis has a quote where he says something along the lines of, "I couldn't tell Robert, he would never have believed me," and I think it is while being questioned why he never said anything sooner. I might be wrong, but I remember a conversation that went something like that. Maybe when Catelyn was there for Renly and Stannis' argument in the Stormlands.

You're correct. He claims he was leaving it for Jon Arryn to do. Maybe it was over Stannis' plan to ban all whores in King's Landing. LOL.

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For my own part, I think Stannis' motivations in running off to Dragonstone had less to do with cowardice or naked ambition, and much more to do with his (constant) priority of cataloging slights he feels others/life/fate have sent his way, and the kind of callous indifference all moral misers manage to maintain when going over such accounts.

I'm sure the possibility that he would be next in line by his way of thinking would have occurred to him, but I do not believe he is the type of man to act on that alone. But given another cause for sulking, I can easily see him thinking 'well then, I'll give Robert no better than he gives me.' or similar.

I think that would prove a much more digestible flavour of shirking his duty than an outright power grab. That the former might lead to the latter might well occur to him as no more than...justice?

No one is the bad guy in their own book.

My problem is less with Stannis than with those who treat him like some slave to duty and then have to do a lot of fancy dancing to explain away the exceptions. If you don't buy the slave bit, and see him as a man of convictions who nevertheless consistently finds a way to put his own interests first, you can save yourself a lot of needless footwork. The line runs straight and true.

Your view works in a black and white/good and bad way, for sure, which is ironically what most people accuse Stannis of seeing the world like, but then the irony with Stan criticisms are usually huge. Still, I'd argue that the accusations of duty shirking are generally things that people have made up, your idea of Stannis' duty would have been for him to potentially put his head on the block for an endeavour that he, for whatever reason, ultimately saw as fruitless, which is a-okay in an ideal world where everyone follows the straight and narrow despite any kind of complications. And we still don't know what he was doing on Dragonstone. He's not the only person to hide the truth from Robert.

Now, if you see Stannis as a man of strong convictions who nevertheless is smart and cynical enough to realise that the world doesn't work that way, as evidenced by the breaking of his own rules (and the amount of vitriol he gets for that is laughable) and if he constantly guns for the straight and narrow he'll end up like dead Ned with no head after accomplishing sweet FA, all of his actions make sense.

Not to mention Stannis is a man that see's morality on a wider scale than, say, Davos or Ned, smaller sacrifices and evils for the bigger picture, this is simultaniously his best and worst quality, a man that would contemplate the sacrificing of an innocent to save the realm is also the kind of man who would sit back and wait for the perfect opportunity to take down the Lannisters in Kings Landing despite the risks rather than blow his beans immediately in a last, probably fruitless attempt to accuse people of things that are not only a) self serving to him but B) a bit out there, to be frank.

I mean, the possibility of it coming out in later books that Stannis was indeed waiting for Robert to die, or had no plans on Dragonstone, but it doesn't make much in the way of sense, if Stannis didn't plan to actually help Robert then he might as well have set sail to Essos, because without Joffrey acting like a complete shit and cutting Eddards head off there is no way anybody is buying the incest story after Robert had died, had Eddard not had reason to investigate himself, which as far as Stannis knew he didn't, he'd most likely have laughed at Stannis. You can say he was doing one thing or another, but as a Police Officer once told me, assumptions make an ass out of you and me.

And we've still yet to have learned of anything Stannis has done in his 15 years serving Robert that also doubled up as self serving, sure wasn't giving up Storms End.

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There has been no good reason given for the amount of time Stannis was on Dragonstone before Robert died.



He was apart of the investigation with Jon Arryn, so we can assume he knew what Jon knew, and when Jon was poisoned and Robert and co leaving for Winterfell, Stannis is left surrounded by perceived enemies, probably real. Stannis does not strike me as a man who would usurp the throne from Robert, so we can dismiss that.



IMHO he was gathering swords to confront/accuse Cersei and to protect himself from Cersei, Robert, and Jamie. Protection from Robert would only be to keep from being imprisoned while he made his case.



Understand during this time, Stannis does not make quick decisions. It seems he brooded on these far too long. IE too late to save his brother, too late to declare himself King etc. Later in the books he broods like this as well, after Blackwater, for example. Slowly through five books he has been quicker in making his choices, but it has been a steep curve for him on this.


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There has been no good reason given for the amount of time Stannis was on Dragonstone before Robert died.

He was apart of the investigation with Jon Arryn, so we can assume he knew what Jon knew, and when Jon was poisoned and Robert and co leaving for Winterfell, Stannis is left surrounded by perceived enemies, probably real. Stannis does not strike me as a man who would usurp the throne from Robert, so we can dismiss that.

IMHO he was gathering swords to confront/accuse Cersei and to protect himself from Cersei, Robert, and Jamie. Protection from Robert would only be to keep from being imprisoned while he made his case.

Understand during this time, Stannis does not make quick decisions. It seems he brooded on these far too long. IE too late to save his brother, too late to declare himself King etc. Later in the books he broods like this as well, after Blackwater, for example. Slowly through five books he has been quicker in making his choices, but it has been a steep curve for him on this.

Your right, we dont have any reason why Stannis was on Dragonstone for so long before Robert died. But saying he was gathering swords to confront the Lannisters is speculation as we don't have evidence of it. One thing we do know, is the entire time Stannis was on Dragonstone he knew about the incest, and he knew Joffreys father and Cerseis lover was in Roberts own Kingsguard. He told nobody, not even his brother Renly before fleeing, and we have no indication through five books that he was going to. Maybe it will be revealed that he did plan on saying something and it was too late. However, at this point in time, we have no indication of that. However we do have reason to believe that Stannis fled the capital knowing Robert could have been in danger. How did stannis know that Jon Arryn's killers were aware Stannis and Jon never told anyone? Stannis would know they never told anyone, but not Jon Arryn's killers, at least not for sure. The fact is, soon after Stannis realized he was next in the line of succession because of the incest, and Jon Arryn died leaving Robert very vulnerable, Stannis fled and told no one. What is weird to me, is Stannis witnessed first hand from the death of Jon Arryn that they were willing to kill to protect the secret of the incest. Another fact is that as soon as Robert was dead, and Joffrey was on the throne, and it made sense for Stannis to make his claim for his own benefit, he told everyone about the incest. We have not an indication from anyone, not even let's say Davos, that Stannis planned on telling just one person before Robert died. Not saying that Stannis planned on usurping his own brother, just saying he could of realized his brother was vulnerable and that he was the next in the line of succession due to incest, and then taken into account all of the times he felt Robert slighted him, including making Eddard hand and not Stannis. After thinking on this, maybe he fled and hoped for the day to come that Robert would die or be killed and he could make his claim. This might not be true, but the interpretation is reasonable.
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Your right, we dont have any reason why Stannis was on Dragonstone for so long before Robert died. But saying he was gathering swords to confront the Lannisters is speculation as we don't have evidence of it. One thing we do know, is the entire time Stannis was on Dragonstone he knew about the incest, and he knew Joffreys father and Cerseis lover was in Roberts own Kingsguard. He told nobody, not even his brother Renly before fleeing, and we have no indication through five books that he was going to. Maybe it will be revealed that he did plan on saying something and it was too late. However, at this point in time, we have no indication of that. However we do have reason to believe that Stannis fled the capital knowing Robert could have been in danger. How did stannis know that Jon Arryn's killers were aware Stannis and Jon never told anyone? Stannis would know they never told anyone, but not Jon Arryn's killers, at least not for sure. The fact is, soon after Stannis realized he was next in the line of succession because of the incest, and Jon Arryn died leaving Robert very vulnerable, Stannis fled and told no one. What is weird to me, is Stannis witnessed first hand from the death of Jon Arryn that they were willing to kill to protect the secret of the incest. Another fact is that as soon as Robert was dead, and Joffrey was on the throne, and it made sense for Stannis to make his claim for his own benefit, he told everyone about the incest. We have not an indication from anyone, not even let's say Davos, that Stannis planned on telling just one person before Robert died. Not saying that Stannis planned on usurping his own brother, just saying he could of realized his brother was vulnerable and that he was the next in the line of succession due to incest, and then taken into account all of the times he felt Robert slighted him, including making Eddard hand and not Stannis. After thinking on this, maybe he fled and hoped for the day to come that Robert would die or be killed and he could make his claim. This might not be true, but the interpretation is reasonable.

No I do not buy that he was hoping Robert would die. Stannis cannot make an accusation this disturbing without having his back covered. He had no friends and he felt he could not trust his brothers, so there you have it.

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No I do not buy that he was hoping Robert would die. Stannis cannot make an accusation this disturbing without having his back covered. He had no friends and he felt he could not trust his brothers, so there you have it.

Well he told everyone about the incest once Robert died, and we haven't seen that he told ONE person beforehand. And we have reason to believe that Stannis knew Robert was in danger. How did Stannis know for sure that Jon Arryn's killers were aware Stannis and Jon never told anyone? Stannis would know that they didn't, but not Jon Arryn's killers, at least not for sure. Stannis knew they were willing to kill to protect the secret of the incest. A huge secret had just been uncovered that could get his brother killed, and Stannis tells not ONE soul while Robert is still alive, but everyone afterwards. Maybe like you say Stannis was well intentioned, but I can see how Stannis fleeing helped Stannis for certain, and not so much how Stannis thought fleeing would have really helped Robert. He had to of at least had some doubt about his Brother King Robert's safety.
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For my own part, I think Stannis' motivations in running off to Dragonstone had less to do with cowardice or naked ambition, and much more to do with his (constant) priority of cataloging slights he feels others/life/fate have sent his way, and the kind of callous indifference all moral misers manage to maintain when going over such accounts.

I'm sure the possibility that he would be next in line by his way of thinking would have occurred to him, but I do not believe he is the type of man to act on that alone. But given another cause for sulking, I can easily see him thinking 'well then, I'll give Robert no better than he gives me.' or similar.

I think that would prove a much more digestible flavour of shirking his duty than an outright power grab. That the former might lead to the latter might well occur to him as no more than...justice?

No one is the bad guy in their own book.

My problem is less with Stannis than with those who treat him like some slave to duty and then have to do a lot of fancy dancing to explain away the exceptions. If you don't buy the slave bit, and see him as a man of convictions who nevertheless consistently finds a way to put his own interests first, you can save yourself a lot of needless footwork. The line runs straight and true.

I totally agree. :agree: First of all because it is a proper and appropriate application of Occam's Razor, the principle in logic that states that a theory is most likely to be true if it results in the smallest number of new unanswered questions (aka "a lot of fancy dancing.")

Also, you've really hit on a nuanced analysis of Stannis' behaviour that is easily backed up by what we know of his actions in the text, not a bunch of assumptions that have no textual backing.

Stannis is extremely penurious with giving anyone credit for helping him, which is at the root of his being friendless.

EXAMPLE: He gives Ned Stark NO credit whatsoever for lifting the siege at Storm's End and saving Stannis' life. "Ned Stark is/was no friend of mine."

The reason he gives for this ingratitude is that "Ned was just doing his duty, and that doesn't merit praise."

But I think that reasoning fails on two counts. The first is that Ned was doing his duty by following Robert's orders, and Stannis doesn't give Robert any credit for the rescue either. The second is that Stannis did expect some reward for his services to Robert, both at SE and later during the Grayjoy Rebellion. So there's a double standard: things done FOR Stannis (even before he was King) are just expected, and undeserving of reward or praise. Things done BY Stannis are altogether different, and if he isn't rewarded for them he broods.

There has been no good reason given for the amount of time Stannis was on Dragonstone before Robert died.

He was apart of the investigation with Jon Arryn, so we can assume he knew what Jon knew, and when Jon was poisoned and Robert and co leaving for Winterfell, Stannis is left surrounded by perceived enemies, probably real. Stannis does not strike me as a man who would usurp the throne from Robert, so we can dismiss that.

IMHO he was gathering swords to confront/accuse Cersei and to protect himself from Cersei, Robert, and Jamie. Protection from Robert would only be to keep from being imprisoned while he made his case.

Understand during this time, Stannis does not make quick decisions. It seems he brooded on these far too long. IE too late to save his brother, too late to declare himself King etc. Later in the books he broods like this as well, after Blackwater, for example. Slowly through five books he has been quicker in making his choices, but it has been a steep curve for him on this.

True, there is NO reason given for Stannis' bugging out of King's Landing and remaining incommunicado for a year and a half before he shows up at Storm's End and kills Renly. The only thing we hear about him is that Varys has heard (and Arya overhears) that he is 'gathering swords,' but we have no idea for what purpose. He does this, significantly, BEFORE Robert's death, so I would say in anticipation of Robert's death. So he left KL not because HE was surrounded by perceived enemies, but because Robert was.

It makes no sense to me that his plan was to confront Cersei with arms drawn while Robert lived, without bothering to tell Robert the reason.

"Protection from Robert ..while he made his case" sounds to me like one of those unexplained exceptions that defy Occam's Razor and thus lead to a lot of fancy dancing.

No I do not buy that he was hoping Robert would die. Stannis cannot make an accusation this disturbing without having his back covered. He had no friends and he felt he could not trust his brothers, so there you have it.

Who's fault was it that Stannis had no friends, though? The very first time we hear his name in AGoT Jaime says that he is "enough to give anyone indigestion." See above comments re: brooding and re: never giving anyone credit.

Well he told everyone about the incest once Robert died, and we haven't seen that he told ONE person beforehand. And we have reason to believe that Stannis knew Robert was in danger. How did Stannis know for sure that Jon Arryn's killers were aware Stannis and Jon never told anyone? Stannis would know that they didn't, but not Jon Arryn's killers, at least not for sure. Stannis knew they were willing to kill to protect the secret of the incest. A huge secret had just been uncovered that could get his brother killed, and Stannis tells not ONE soul while Robert is still alive, but everyone afterwards. Maybe like you say Stannis was well intentioned, but I can see how Stannis fleeing helped Stannis for certain, and not so much how Stannis thought fleeing would have really helped Robert. He had to of at least had some doubt about his Brother King Robert's safety.

BINGO! It's the timing of his actions more than anything else that reveal his intention, if not his motivation.

- He waits until after Robert, Cersei, Jaime and most of the Red Cloaks leave for Winterfell before he bugs out for Dragonstone.

So, if he thinks the threat is from the Lannisters, and stemming from his and Jon Arryn's discovery of the twincest, Any Threat to STANNIS Himself Has Just Been Removed. He's free to stay in KL, do his duty by sitting on the Small Council, and communicate to whoever thinks can help him convince Robert of the truth. The best candidate for that would be Renly. (see above comments about Stannis having no-one but himself to blame for him having no friends, including his own brothers.)

So his revealed intention in THAT bit of timing seems to be that he doesn't want Robert to know he's abandoning his post. The King would have commanded him to stay in KL, and he knows it.

Stannis' fleeing in no way helps or has the potential to help Robert. It ONLY helps Stannis.

- He waits until Robert is dead before he 'suddenly' remembers his duty to expose the kincest.

*(church lady voice) Well isn't that convenient?*

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DATES: (per unofficial time line)


2/24/298 - Jon Arryn dies. Robert leaves for Winterfell some time shortly thereafter.


3/22/298 - word reaches Winterfell that Robert is on his way.


circa 3/22 - Stannis leaves for Dragonstone


9/2/298 - Ned arrives in KL, Robert soon thereafter.


11/15 - Robert returns from hunting, mortally wounded and dies within a day


12/25 - Ned beheaded


...


3/10/299 - Burning of The Seven on Dragonstone,


Stannis FINALLY sends letters about twincest - One year, two weeks after Jon Arryn's death


...


5/1/299 - Renly first hears that Stannis is besieging Storm's End


7/14/299 - Renly and Stannis negotiate, to no end


7/15/299 - Stannis' shadow assassin murders Renly


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AMHS;

Exactly.

As soon as you need to invent all kinds of stuff that happens off camera to explain why X makes the most sense, you should probably re-think X. What I see a lot is an idea of Stannis character being the starting point, and then reason and invention being used to fill in the blanks between that and what we know.

Which, even without Occam's Razor ought to be especially dangerous with a writer like GRRM who really likes to boil frogs.

If you find yourself excusing something Stannis does (which happens to concur with his interests/agenda) because he's a slave to duty and in aunother instance you find yourself explaining why he avoids doing his duty (in a way that happens to concur with his interests/agenda) because of simple pragmatism, please be aware of the serious probable flaw contained in at least half your reasoning. Because the entire point about duty is that it conflicts with your pragmatic interests. If it didn't, it wouldn't require a concept like duty, and if you only do it when it meets with your interests, it's not duty.

If others are able to point out that, w/e the rhetoric, Stannis pretty consistently does what is best for Stannis and don't need to tap dance around facts to do it, do not necessarily attribute bias to their views.

Stannis had a lot of nice qualities, most of which are summarized in Davos, one of the few truly good characters in the series. But the first and last lens he applies to any person, event or action is not 'how does this affect my duty' but rather 'how does this affect Stannis' and he holds everyone else accountable for where they do or do not do the same.

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Stannis just doesn't fit in with our corporate culture here at King's L. He's not a team player who'd get along in our work environment.



But if King's L. was burned down so the new king/queen had to be based out of somewhere else, we could see that panning out better for Stannis. Just not Winterfell because there'd be like 18 child lords climbing all over any chair Stannis tried to set up for himself there, and that doesn't make for a regal workspace.


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Yeah, that gap filling where we don't know whats happened during a certain time. Its totally only being done by one side and there is no chance people are making shit up to fit THEIR OWN interpretations here... :dunce:


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Or should I say that by filling the blanks yourself and assuming them as FACT (there is no two ways with you lot) you're painting the character in a potentially unintended light and spoiling potentially rewarding moments from that character later down the line, for no better reason than finding another reason to hate them.



More succinctly, if you want to make stuff up then fine, just dont dont be shocked when someone takes a steaming dump over your opinion.

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Or should I say that by filling the blanks yourself and assuming them as FACT (there is no two ways with you lot) you're painting the character in a potentially unintended light and spoiling potentially rewarding moments from that character later down the line, for no better reason than finding another reason to hate them.

More succinctly, if you want to make stuff up then fine, just dont dont be shocked when someone takes a steaming dump over your opinion.

Here's the nothing made up version.

1) Stannis and Jon Arryn discover a probable dangerous conspiracy at the heart of the Iron Throne, although they are short of actual proof. If true, this represents a very real danger to their king/brother/foster son.

2) Jon Arryn dies/is murdered while in the course of trying to find proof.

3) Robert leaves for WF with the conspirators in tow to make Ned Hand.

4) Stannis heads to Dragonstone without a word to anyone, very pissed off about Robert naming Ned Hand. From this point onwards he answers no ravens, attends no councils and offers no warnings. The only things we know that he does for sure is to slowly up a military force on DS, and to stew over wrongs his brother has done him. Somewhere around this time he adopts a new religion whose prophecies foresee him sitting in his brother's throne.

5) the Court returns to KL, Ned begins to uncover the plot, Renly tries to lessen Lannister control on the throne, Robert drinks and whores, etc. Everyone wonders why Stannis has gone AWOL, even to the point of ignoring official queries/summons.

6) After about a year of this, Ned uncovers the plot Stannis has known about. Lannister and Stark conflict sparks, Robert is killed by the conspirators and Ned is arrested for treason and executed, in part because he tries to ensure the throne passes to Stannis, from whom there is still no word.

7) A little more time passes. Robb Stark and Renly Baratheon rise up in separate rebellion against Joffrey, and both have initial success.

8) Stannis sends out ravens detailing what he knew about the conspiracy over a year ago and on that basis proclaiming himself King. It also proclaims his new religion.

9) Quick upon the heels of that, he surprises Westeros by declaring war on and attacking his brother. Caught in a trap when his brother comes to defend his seat, Stannis uses sorcery to assassinate his brother and his castellan and gains control of some of his army.

I'll end there.

Those are the events in succession. Do you dispute them?

Here are a few overriding truths which apply throughout:

1) it is Stannis' legal duty to protect his King as a Lord Paramount. It is his legal and moral duty as a council member to attend council, respond to summons, and protect his King. It is his moral duty as a brother to protect his brother. He does none of those things for well over a year, and ignores requests to do so.

2) Stannis has acquired exactly zero evidence to support the conspiracy between when he abandons Robert and when he reveals the plot as the basis for his claim to the throne.

Those are the bald facts. My version of Stannis' motives adds nothing to the facts. He repeatedly and in many ways neglected his duties, he knowingly left his brother the King surrounded by enemies he was not aware of, he strongly suspects the last Hand of the king was murdered by same, and whenever we hear him speak about this time, his reasons as given are the slights Robert has given him, the slights Ned has given him, the slights Renly has given him and his belief that Robert would probably have suspected his motives if he came forth. He adopts a religion which tells him he will be King.

That's it. Those are the facts we know of. My explanation is just that: this is what we know. I don't need to invent or add a damn thing. I call it self explanatory.

Other explanations requires additional explanations and/or invention. A proposed armed resistance on Robert's behalf that no one has ever mentioned, and which somehow takes over a year. A mistake Stannis makes and goes on making for a year. A self-evident pragmatism which flies in the face of all his duties.

Etc.

Iow, one of these things is not like the other.

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Here's the nothing made up version.

1) Stannis and Jon Arryn discover a probable dangerous conspiracy at the heart of the Iron Throne, although they are short of actual proof. If true, this represents a very real danger to their king/brother/foster son.

2) Jon Arryn dies/is murdered while in the course of trying to find proof.

3) Robert leaves for WF with the conspirators in tow to make Ned Hand.

4) Stannis heads to Dragonstone without a word to anyone, very pissed off about Robert naming Ned Hand. From this point onwards he answers no ravens, attends no councils and offers no warnings. The only things we know that he does for sure is to slowly up a military force on DS, and to stew over wrongs his brother has done him. Somewhere around this time he adopts a new religion whose prophecies foresee him sitting in his brother's throne.

5) the Court returns to KL, Ned begins to uncover the plot, Renly tries to lessen Lannister control on the throne, Robert drinks and whores, etc. Everyone wonders why Stannis has gone AWOL, even to the point of ignoring official queries/summons.

6) After about a year of this, Ned uncovers the plot Stannis has known about. Lannister and Stark conflict sparks, Robert is killed by the conspirators and Ned is arrested for treason and executed, in part because he tries to ensure the throne passes to Stannis, from whom there is still no word.

7) A little more time passes. Robb Stark and Renly Baratheon rise up in separate rebellion against Joffrey, and both have initial success.

8) Stannis sends out ravens detailing what he knew about the conspiracy over a year ago and on that basis proclaiming himself King. It also proclaims his new religion.

9) Quick upon the heels of that, he surprises Westeros by declaring war on and attacking his brother. Caught in a trap when his brother comes to defend his seat, Stannis uses sorcery to assassinate his brother and his castellan and gains control of some of his army.

I'll end there.

Those are the events in succession. Do you dispute them?

Here are a few overriding truths which apply throughout:

1) it is Stannis' legal duty to protect his King as a Lord Paramount. It is his legal and moral duty as a council member to attend council, respond to summons, and protect his King. It is his moral duty as a brother to protect his brother. He does none of those things for well over a year, and ignores requests to do so.

2) Stannis has acquired exactly zero evidence to support the conspiracy between when he abandons Robert and when he reveals the plot as the basis for his claim to the throne.

Those are the bald facts. My version of Stannis' motives adds nothing to the facts. He repeatedly and in many ways neglected his duties, he knowingly left his brother the King surrounded by enemies he was not aware of, he strongly suspects the last Hand of the king was murdered by same, and whenever we hear him speak about this time, his reasons as given are the slights Robert has given him, the slights Ned has given him, the slights Renly has given him and his belief that Robert would probably have suspected his motives if he came forth. He adopts a religion which tells him he will be King.

That's it. Those are the facts we know of. My explanation is just that: this is what we know. I don't need to invent or add a damn thing. I call it self explanatory.

Other explanations requires additional explanations and/or invention. A proposed armed resistance on Robert's behalf that no one has ever mentioned, and which somehow takes over a year. A mistake Stannis makes and goes on making for a year. A self-evident pragmatism which flies in the face of all his duties.

Etc.

Iow, one of these things is not like the other.

And all these delightful facts coupled with character history point to a man with strong moral principles who nevertheless is unwilling to die for a percieved impossibility, these facts coupled with later actions show an inability to make quick decisions. They also show a man happier with a force of arms than playing the political game.

Acquiring =/= not looking. Protect the King? How much danger is he in compared to Stannis anyway? There is more than one way to skin a cat and what we do know for a fact is that Robert was safer in his ignorance than when someone was going to tell him. As far as raven communication goes, Pycelle was in charge of those. Stannis was clearly planning something, you cant pay sellswords forever after all, we just dont know what that was. But since no one with him during that period, not from Cressen to Davos to Selyse to Melisandre to Axell Florent to Clayton Suggs to Jussin Massey to Richard Horpe to Stannis himself has given me cause to believe that he had altogether abandoned Robert or his duty to him or was simply waiting his turn (last to declare, after all), despite all his complaints (and they're not new) a good assumption would be that he is going about it in a more unorthadox way.

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Well he told everyone about the incest once Robert died, and we haven't seen that he told ONE person beforehand. And we have reason to believe that Stannis knew Robert was in danger. How did Stannis know for sure that Jon Arryn's killers were aware Stannis and Jon never told anyone? Stannis would know that they didn't, but not Jon Arryn's killers, at least not for sure. Stannis knew they were willing to kill to protect the secret of the incest. A huge secret had just been uncovered that could get his brother killed, and Stannis tells not ONE soul while Robert is still alive, but everyone afterwards. Maybe like you say Stannis was well intentioned, but I can see how Stannis fleeing helped Stannis for certain, and not so much how Stannis thought fleeing would have really helped Robert. He had to of at least had some doubt about his Brother King Robert's safety.

As far as I am aware, he is the one that put Jon Arryn onto the case. He said he did this because it would sound better coming from Jon than him, because A- he had the most to gain and B- Robert had no love for him.

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