What is your opinion on AFFC and ADWD?

[Frey Pies]

Now that a few years have passed, what does everyone think of these books in comparison to the rest?

I'm interested in opinions :)

I personally think that, while the North was handled extremely well, GRRM completely botched the other regions and the characters of Dany and Tyrion. Theon was masterful though. I also feel that having so many cliffhangers ruined the books- having one of the two battles would have been good, and that could easily have been accomplished by cutting out the numerous filler chapters.

[TallTyrion]

AFFC was my least favourite ADWD is my second favourite behind Storm of Swords.

[Kienn]

They're just as good as any of the others.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I liked them. Not every book should be full with battles, deaths and military action. Feast was about intrigues and some character development. Dance was about "growing up" for Dany, Jon and Tyrion.

[TheonGreyjoy]

Feast was not so great, too much of Cersei. ADWD was one of the best in the series.

[Illuminated by Fire]

They are at least as interesting as the other books. Both have slower pacing, largely bacause of the many POVs, which can make it a bit difficult to read. On the first read AFfC was a bit boring, but both books get a lot better on a reread. Even the Meereen plot was interesting then and AFfC is one of my favourites now because it takes its time to go into the characters. For example: Brienne telling the Elder Brother about herself. That moment really got me and it wouldn't have made half the impact it actually makes if Brienne's travels would've been cut short for the sake of the plot.

[DavosSeaworthy]

They are great just like the rest, they are setting the stage for bigger things to come.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

AFFC didn't like too many unnecessary characters. ADWD was too slow but it the turning point of the story .

[blackhallmanor]

I have no problems with AFFC and I really enjoyed it, specially Brienne and Arya's chapters. I do understand why some people weren't so crazy about it but once TWOW and ADOS come out people will begin to appreciate AFFC and the place it has in the saga.

If you decide to combine them both then it's a completely different situation. I'll do a combined reading once I get to AFFC on my re-read and see how much it differs.

[Frey Pies]

I have no problems with AFFC and I really enjoyed it, specially Brienne and Arya's chapters. I do understand why some people weren't so crazy about it but once TWOW and ADOS come out people will begin to appreciate AFFC and the place it has in the saga.

If you decide to combine them both then it's a completely different situation. I'll do a combined reading once I get to AFFC on my re-read and see how much it differs.

Yeah, combined reading is a little different. I did that once, but it only annoyed me further, since Martin doesn't resolve a single arc except for Theon. While I think that the two might be pretty ok in terms of components of the series, as books, they are extremely unsatisfying. I still don't know what GRRM was thinking, though, by excluding both battles from ADWD.

[Zebra of KotOR]

I'm a oddball for many reasons, one of which is ADwD being my favorite book. I love all the books and have never found any character boring :)

[The Holy Goat]

Love the books, think they are great. They are the least amazing books in the series though, with AFFC coming in last place and ADWD in second to last place.

[The headless hand]

Although A Feast for Crows was definately my least favourite on my first reread if the series, I think it improves a huge amount on reread's and I would say it's probably my second favourite book in the series.

I actually enjoyed A Dance with Dragons the first read through and since it's been released, a lot of analysis has shed light on it and improved the reading experience. I'd say it was my fourth favourite in the series, although that's mainly due to the strength of the other books rather than it's weaknesses :)

[Night's_King]

Feast is my number four. I like the Greyjoy arc, Sams arc and Jaime's redemption arc. 5/10

Dance is number five. The odd thing is, that I love the fantasy elements way more than the other elements of the story (politics etc.), thus this book should be my favourite. But it is not. Davos and Brans arcs are great, Theon's as well. But the rest... meeh. I guess I was deeply disappointed by Tyrion and Jon. 3/10

Those books are nowhere near Game or Storm.

[Frey Pies]

Feast is my number four. I like the Greyjoy arc, Sams arc and Jaime's redemption arc. 5/10

Dance is number five. The odd thing is, that I love the fantasy elements way more than the other elements of the story (politics etc.), thus this book should be my favourite. But it is not. Davos and Brans arcs are great, Theon's as well. But the rest... meeh. I guess I was deeply disappointed by Tyrion and Jon. 3/10

Those books are nowhere near Game or Storm.

If Davos and Bran had continued throughout the book, there's a good chance my perception of the book would have been different. But alas :(

[Jo498]

AFFC is clearly the worst, ADWD was a disappointment, although far better and with quite a bit of good stuff among lots of rather mediocre meandering.

I do not remember ACoK well enough to say whether it is clearly better than Vol. 5.

AFFC could have been shortened by about 50%, ADWD by at least 25%. As I had read the series only in Jan/Feb 11 I only had to wait a few months for ADWD, I would have been pretty pissed had I waited for 10 years to face such a mess. GRRM obviously lacks a strict editor with a couple of months time to weed out all the redundancies and formulaic language and generally condense the material. Apart from the dragging plot the latter became much worse with the fifth book, I think. Because it will sell like lemon cakes anyway nobody seems to bother. The characterization of the viewpoints by language, although never very strong, also became almost non-existent.

GRRM is too enamoured with some characters whose arcs get dragged out too much (Tyrion in ADWD) and also with pointless descriptions that do not serve any purpose and are redundant (all those meals, always described by similar formulae, or that bloody hall with coat of arms at the wall...)

[The hairy bear]

They're good books with great moments and plots, but there are some pacing problems that makes them the worst of the saga (Dance a step lower than Feast). Divinding the books geographicaly was a bad decision. Scraping the 5 year gap was a bad decision. Introducing multiple new POVs was a bad decision. Cuting the two battles at the end of Dance was a bad decision.

But we won't really be able to issue a final veredict without reading the final books. Perhaps some things that seemed a waste of space in those books end being essential in providing motivations or thematic consitency to future key developments.

[Holy Sock]

Sure, there are plot cliffhangers, but Theon is not the only character who has a complete character arc.

From what I recall Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, Daenerys, Samwell, Tyrion, Arya, and Quentyn have a complete arc. I'm sure an argument can be made for the others.

Anwyay, I really liked both books. I'd heard so much about how boring and scattered they are. How "nothing happens". So I was surprised that they were so interesting.

I really think it's a situation of different people liking the same work for different reasons. I mean the reason I read the books after watching Season 1 was because I knew I was missing the "whole story". All the detail, subplots and secondary characters that would have been cut for time or lost in the adaptation process.

[Night's_King]

AFFC is clearly the worst, ADWD was a disappointment, although far better and with quite a bit of good stuff among lots of rather mediocre meandering.

I do not remember ACoK well enough to say whether it is clearly better than Vol. 5.

AFFC could have been shortened by about 50%, ADWD by at least 25%. As I had read the series only in Jan/Feb 11 I only had to wait a few months for ADWD, I would have been pretty pissed had I waited for 10 years to face such a mess. GRRM obviously lacks a strict editor with a couple of months time to weed out all the redundancies and formulaic language and generally condense the material. Apart from the dragging plot the latter became much worse with the fifth book, I think. Because it will sell like lemon cakes anyway nobody seems to bother. The characterization of the viewpoints by language, although never very strong, also became almost non-existent.

GRRM is too enamoured with some characters whose arcs get dragged out too much (Tyrion in ADWD) and also with pointless descriptions that do not serve any purpose and are redundant (all those meals, always described by similar formulae, or that bloody hall with coat of arms at the wall...)

Waited only four years, but still I was really pissed.

[Night's_King]

Sure, there are plot cliffhangers, but Theon is not the only character who has a complete character arc.

From what I recall Jaime, Brienne, Cersei, Daenerys, Samwell, Tyrion, Arya, and Quentyn have a complete arc. I'm sure an argument can be made for the others.

Anwyay, I really liked both books. I'd heard so much about how boring and scattered they are. How "nothing happens". So I was surprised that they were so interesting.

I really think it's a situation of different people liking the same work for different reasons. I mean the reason I read the books after watching Season 1 was because I knew I was missing the "whole story". All the detail, subplots and secondary characters that would have been cut for time or lost in the adaptation process.

Complete arcs? Theon's arc ended with him fleeing from WF. What has happened to him and Jeyne? Brienne and Jaime are heading for LS, what will happen to them? Cersei had to go through the walk of shame and now awaits her trial by combat. Daenerys met a new Khalasar, how will she handle them?

Can you please elaborate why you think that those arcs did not end with a cliffhanger?