What is your opinion on AFFC and ADWD?

[Rhyegon]

I have read the books just once. I started in december 2011, and finished it in January 2012. I was on vacations, so. I enjoyed Game and Storm the most. And for the last two, well, I've grown to care for AFFC. I enjoyed looking inside Cersei, although it wasn't as revealing as I would've expected. Brienne and Sansa were my favorites POVs character and it was fun reading Asha. And Jaime's of course. For Dance, Dany's and Tyrion's POVs were frustrating to read, Penny just annoyed me. And with Jon I felt I grew more fond of him that in previous books, you come to understand what is that he craves. But Dance stands utterly short when put against Storm, or even Clash. For me, as it is intended to work as a complement from the latter book.

[Asha's Suckling Babe]

I loved both the books. Brienne's chapter's in Feast and Jon's chapter's in Dance are my fav pov's.

Personally I really enjoyed Feast, particularly Brienne's chapters.

Brienne and Sansa were my favorites POVs and it was fun reading Asha.

I'm happy to see some love for the Brienne chapters!

I have noticed they are not very popular on this forum, but I absolutely love them. It's good to see several others agree. :)

[WinterfellDownAndCantGetUp]

<snip>

Yup, this is basically it. We just don't need all of those characters to be POVs. Some of them (ahem, Quentyn) we don't even need in the narrative in any capacity. The bloat absolutely kills the pace. Honestly, I find the current situation of ASOIAF very similar to the Wheel of Time, circa books 7 to 10 or so. The author knows what the endgame will be, but for whatever reason, we're just not going there. We're getting broader, and slower, and slooooooooooooower... and the reader is left with the sense that though the author knows how the story ends, he has no idea how to get from here to there. So he stalls.

[Basileus777]

They were bloated, aimless, structureless, and poorly paced novels with no real payoff where the important stuff is lost in a haze of new POVs, endless travels, secondary characters, tertiary plotlines, and on and on. AFFC at least has the benefit of some nice prose, while the actual writing in ADWD is pretty messy.

[Littlefingers In The Air]

A Feast For Crows is a great book that is vastly underrated by the fandom. It is the book that really shows off the multiple dimensions of this series. It isn't just gory battles and ruthless killing.

The political intrigue and world building are at a premium.

As for ADWD good book overall but dragging in Mereen. Tyrion descended to a place you don't return from. Those things don't take away from how awesome everything with Jon and Theon is.

[SerArthurHeath]

Anyone who hates Feast, don't ever try and read Stephenson or Hugo. Or Rand. But then nobody should ever try and read Rand

[SerArthurHeath]

Yup, this is basically it. We just don't need all of those characters to be POVs. Some of them (ahem, Quentyn) we don't even need in the narrative in any capacity. The bloat absolutely kills the pace. Honestly, I find the current situation of ASOIAF very similar to the Wheel of Time, circa books 7 to 10 or so. The author knows what the endgame will be, but for whatever reason, we're just not going there. We're getting broader, and slower, and slooooooooooooower... and the reader is left with the sense that though the author knows how the story ends, he has no idea how to get from here to there. So he stalls.

Quentyn in the narrative is probably important in terms of how he died and if Doran finds out and reacts. That he didn't need to be a POV I'd agree with. I'm presuming Aeron's POV gets a payoff soon. Or maybe that's just hope

[SerArthurHeath]

So someone being a pair of eyes, while all of the people around him are doing stuff he has little to no control over is somehow character development. I'll admit Tyrion seems to be returning to his usual self by the end of the book, but he's like a completely different character up until that point.

And that was entirely the point, showing how much despair can do in terms of damage to a man's psyche

[White Ravens]

Wow, this is a tough room. I will admit that I enjoyed the first three books more, but I'm a bit taken aback by how much some people are saying they disliked Feast and Dance. Why even read a book if you don't enjoy it?

[Good Guy Garlan]

Wow, this is a tough room. I will admit that I enjoyed the first three books more, but I'm a bit taken aback by how much some people are saying they disliked Feast and Dance. Why even read a book if you don't enjoy it?

Oh, c'mon, really! How would you know if you enjoy a book or not if you don't read it? :rolleyes:

[Nictarion]

To this date I still have no idea what GRRM was thinking when he wrote his Tyrion chapters for a DWD. He has his favorite character do nothing important for an entire book.

Just because you didn't like those chapters doesn't mean nothing impotant happened in them. Tyrion meeting Aegon, and convincing him not to wait for Dany to go Westeros is going to have huge ramifacations. Meeting Jorah, becoming a slave, and joining the Second Sons were all pretty major events too.

[sj4iy]

Anyone who hates Feast, don't ever try and read Stephenson or Hugo. Or Rand. But then nobody should ever try and read Rand

Les Miserables and Jekyll and Hyde are two of my favorite books. Atlas Shrugged was a chore to read. So was AFFC. The first two were excellent stories that had some pacing problems that I could overlook because I was so engrossed in the story itself. The latter two I don't consider to be excellent stories.

I do agree that Rand is awful, though.

[Nictarion]

Using various pseudo-intellectual terms do not justify the severe tedium and poorly-written and plotted nature that was Tyrion's Dance storyline. If I wanted to read about the human condition I'd stick to my psychology textbook, written by actual psychologists and people that know what they're talking about. I read fictional books first and foremost to be entertained and interested. Having some cool themes are all fine and dandy, but I want a good story to have them, not a bad story, which Tyrion's was.

GRRM has sid the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with itself.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Anyone who hates Feast, don't ever try and read Stephenson or Hugo. Or Rand. But then nobody should ever try and read Rand

I liked the Fountainhead. Because I read it in College, when I went to Arch. School. And I wanted to blow up bad designed buildings. I still want.

[White Ravens]

Oh, c'mon, really! How would you know if you enjoy a book or not if you don't read it? :rolleyes:

You read enough of it to know that you don't like it. I've only done it once, but I have read halfway through a book and just pitched it into the garbage. I realize that readers have invested thousands of pages of reading by the time they get to Feast and Dance, but nobody is forcing them to finish. I'm just surprised and off-put a bit at the level of bitching I'm seeing here on this fan forum.

[SerArthurHeath]

Les Miserables and Jekyll and Hyde are two of my favorite books. Atlas Shrugged was a chore to read. So was AFFC. The first two were excellent stories that had some pacing problems that I could overlook because I was so engrossed in the story itself. The latter two I don't consider to be excellent stories.

I do agree that Rand is awful, though.

:)

I meant Neal Stephenson though, not Robert Louis!

[Bitterflame]

I browsed the forums before reading AFFC - expecting it to be horrible, but I enjoyed it. Cersei going crazy, all the Dorne chapters (especially Arianne's), and Sansa's chapters in the Eyrie are some of my favorite reads.

I didn't care that much for any of the IB chapters though.. reading this thread I see that I'm not alone.

[Good Guy Garlan]

I liked the Fountainhead. Because I read it in College, when I went to Arch. School. And I wanted to blow up bad designed buildings. I still want.

As bad as the Fountainhead is (and that's plenty), it has nothing on Atlas. I swear, people who complain about "Where do whores go?" should meet John Galt

You read enough of it to know that you don't like it. I've only done it once, but I have read halfway through a book and just pitched it into the garbage. I realize that readers have invested thousands of pages of reading by the time they get to Feast and Dance, but nobody is forcing them to finish. I'm just surprised and off-put a bit at the level of bitching I'm seeing here on this fan forum.

I find it a bit tiresome to see this kind of comments every single time someone criticizes the series. We're all big boys and girls here, I don't know why people need to be reminded that everyone has different opinions, that just because one enjoys a series doesn't mean one has to like everything about it, that one is no less of a fan for criticizing the book, that a discussion comprising only compliments and sunshine and rainbows is not interesting, etc, etc, etc

[SerArthurHeath]

What kind of book has a speech that would in real life last 3 and as half HOURS?!

[sifth]

Just because you didn't like those chapters doesn't mean nothing impotant happened in them. Tyrion meeting Aegon, and convincing him not to wait for Dany to go Westeros is going to have huge ramifacations. Meeting Jorah, becoming a slave, and joining the Second Sons were all pretty major events too.

The Aegon stuff was cool, once Jorah came into play, his story felt like complete filler.