So...why exactly did Renly plan to make Margaery Robert's queen?

[SpottedBellyCat]

Hi, everyone!

New to the forum, and not a native speaker, so please be gentle :)

I have been looking for it for a while but could not find an answer in the wiki or the forums.

Why did Renly have any Interest in Margaery Tyrell becoming Queen instead of Cersei, besides maybe personal dislike of House Lannister?

Was it House Tyrell pushing him in this direction, or did maybe one of the " Players" ( Littlefinger, Varys,etc)

put this Idea in his head?

Or did Renly already suspect Cesei to plan Robert's death by "accident"?

Maybe I've missed it somehow, but if so I just can't remember.

If this has been discussed before, I would be very grateful if someone could put a link in here to the original post on this topic :)

Thank you!

[LordStoneheart]

As a favor to his squire boyfriend Loras, I assume.

[jon stark I]

I think Renly realized how much power Lannisters gained in past years and he wanted to cut their power down a bit.Renly wasn't a complete moron you know.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Because they were too many Lannister men in KL and Cersei wasn't exactly a good person.

Maybe they thought Margaery would make a better Queen. And they were right.

[SpottedBellyCat]

I do get all these reasons, and I never thought Renly anything but very clever :)

He never hit me as someone doing things just for fun, especially something that risky.

But what would he have gained?

It's not as if his relationship with Loras was official, so it would not have been as if the new queen was something like his sister in Law...

I know House Tyrell is powerful, but were they already that closely bound to Renly, that he would have benefited from their rule?

Or was he just such a good person, and it would have been all for the good of the realm?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I do get all these reasons, and I never thought Renly anything but very clever :)

He never hit me as someone doing things just for fun, especially something that risky.

But what would he have gained?

It's not as if his relationship with Loras was official, so it would not have been as if the new queen was something like his sister in Law...

I know House Tyrell is powerful, but were they already that closely bound to Renly, that he would have benefited from their rule?

Or was he just such a good person, and it would have been all for the good of the realm?

First, Renly wasn't probably the brightest bulb but it was obvious that the Lannisters got too much power while Robert was simply ignoring it, or not caring about that. And when I mean "The Lannisters" I mean Tywin, a man who is known to have destroyed two Houses who wronged his family.

Two, power. Loras was Renly's lover and Margaery was Loras' beloved sister. I'm not saying they wanted to "control" her but they could get more benefit from her than Cersei. In that case, Renly would be pretty much benefit from both the King and the Queen.

[Thendel]

There are a couple of reasons why Renly was working on this scheme:

• His own relationship with the Lannisters, and Joffrey in particular, was very poor. He (rightfully) suspected that once Joffrey took the throne, he would lose most of his influence at court, and they might eventually try to off him, in order to claim Storm's End for themselves.
  
• Courtesy of Cersei, the Lannisters were wielding a huge amount of power over the court. Renly was standing outside that circle, and his influence was limited as a result. Knowing Cersei, he also knew that this iron ring around Robert could too easily off the king if he grew truculent. Renly and Robert may not have been that close as brothers, but the former definitely loved the latter as one loves a brother.
  
• Being the lover of Loras Tyrell, Mace's favorite child, means Renly could exert a massive influence over the power behind the throne if Margaery were to become queen.
  

[SpottedBellyCat]

Thank you!

I just wasn't able to make a complete picture of it all... ;)

[Stormland's Fury]

Because the Lannisters in King's Landing were becoming a bit unhealthy for the Baratheons:

“…the queen would not have waited long in any case. Robert was becoming unruly, and she needed to be rid of him to free her hands to deal with his brothers. They are quite a pair, Stannis and Renly. The iron gauntlet and the silk glove.”

[Biter the Gallant]

On the short run: to minimize Lannister power. On the long run? Probably because he wanted to rule after Robert's death, one way, or an other. Cersei as a queen dowager with influance over her children would make it difficult, so he probably decided to get rid of them. Robert marrying Margaery and sending away Cersei would give Renly the possibility to minimize the Lannister political influence in the royal court and the government, and to give positions to his own Tyrell supporters. If Margaery gets pregnant from Robert (likely), Renly could try to steal the birthright of the other royal children, even try to make Robert (who would surely enjoy his marriage with Margaery much more than the previous one) to name his new son as the heir instead of Joffrey or Tommen. Then, when Robert dies, Renly could easily rule as Regent in the name of Margaery's son, who still would have been very young.

[joluoto2]

Because he (the Tyrells) wanted to replace the Lannisters as the Power Player in KL. And he was convinced he'd get a a promotion in a Tyrell dominated court (possibly as regent to a child of Robert and Margaery).

But the main things are Renly was worried about Tywin Lannister (the former kings brothers would always be a threat to Joffrey and his siblings. Her knew what kind of man Tywin was) and his Tyrell friends wanted power.

[Señor de la Tormenta]

His brother happines?

...

[Beorn Snow]

He was loyal to Robert at least. Just not loyal to Stannis. It was really a smart move. Starks didn´t like the Lannisters, neither the Tullys and certainly not the Arryns or Martells, so they would not side with Cersei´s children. Tyrrels+Baratheons are sufficient to hold the seven kingdoms together. With Stannis, and perhaps Renly also marrying into Reach-families it would make the alliance very solid.

[Facebookless Man]

Because the Baratheons needed a powerful alliance to stay in power.

Being brother of the king isn't too shabby in itself you know. As long as the king can keep his head and his throne.

[Danelle]

The Tyrells not only supported House Targaryen during RR but Mace was responsible for the siege in Storm's End and Randyll Tarly, a prominent Tyrell bannerman, was the main reason why Robert was defeated in Ashford.

While the Starks, Arryns and Lannisters were former kings, the Tyrell are a relatively new House and in Reach they still have to compete with the Florents and Hightowers.

As far as I can tell there never was a Tyrell queen, unlike Alicent Hightower.

Renly on the other hand, is the most charismatic of the Baratheon brothers, and he was quite ambitious as well.

The combination of the Tyrells desire to gain more power and Renly's need to extend his influence over Robert, were the main reasons why they plotted to replace Cersei with Margaery.

In my opinion it wasn't such a great plan, since they underestimated Cersei and her love for her children and at the same time they overestimated Margaery. They didn't wanted to replace just Cersei but Lyanna as well...

[Batbob45]

Charisma doesn't keep the realm's economy from falling. He would of have Mace as hand and Mace is an idiot who will make dumb decisions when Olenna is not around. I give credit to Tyells, they are great at PR by being love by smallfolks.

[new djinn]

It always struck me as a odd plan(from a non treasonous Renly pespective). If he didn't knew about the incest, even if he manage to have Robert favour Margaery, still a annulement of the marriage to Cersei wouldn't be easy(don't think the Tyrells were in this to have Marg as Roberts mistress), plus removing Joff, Tommen and Myrcella from the way of Margaery kids would have to be treasonous in multiple levels(against the Crown, against his own nephews and niece). Now if he knew about the incest, why not tell Robert? Or if he was planning to remove his nephews and niece, that betrayal to his family. The first situation could get him the support of most of Westeros, but the second not likely, specially after the Joff-Sansa match(pretty much garantes Ned & hoster would fight for her).

And why not try to do that with Stannis? If Marg could replace Cersei(2 boys & 1 girl), why not even try that with Selyse(1 girl)?

[Bronn Urgandy]

Because if you're going to make enemies of the Lannisters then its probably best if you make the second biggest/joint first most powerful House your friends. One of the many facts Renly realised that people like Stannis and Ned shut their eyes and closed their ears to.

[Khal Shaggydog]

Renly would get to put his boyfriend into a place of prominence at court - Kingsguard. Loras is a third son, and more so, has no interest in marriage, but rather wants to be closer to Renly (even if Renly was in SE Loras would still be closer than at Highgarden, and Robert would visit more often to his actual home, so Loras would also go).

Removal of Lannister influence, as everyone else mentioned. Renly is not dumb, we can see by his immediate action at Roberts death he was ready to move, knew who to offer an alliance to (Ned and the Starks, by extension, the Tullys), and knew that with Robert gone he was a sitting duck for Cersei and her ambitions.

The King can annul the marriage with a wave of his hand - he is the highest power in the land. We've seen "Joffrey" dismiss Barristan from the KG, disregarding a 300 year tradition. Joffrey also broke a betrothal. And Cersei reversed 300 years of precedent by giving the faith back their arms. Robert could do as Robert liked.

[James Arryn]

Remember Renly's second plan; the proposal to Ned.

Personal ambition would seem to be a secondary consideration for him. Just start off with protecting his brother and himself, and understand that he and the Lannisters were already enemies, and it's not that complicated. He probably wants to rise in power if given the choice, but I think he is much more concerned with not losing the power he already has, coupled with his life and brother.

Among the questions a man in a Renly's situation would have already asked himself was:

Where does Cersei see Tommen's future once Robert is dead.

First answer would seem to be CR, but then she sees herself as her father's heir, as seemingly does everyone except Tywin. Where else could a second Baratheon brother rule? The options would seem to be Dragonstone and/or Storm's End, and the former doesn't' come with anywhere near the wealth or political support of the latter. And then there's always Myrcella.

He has clearly identified the Lannisters influence as a danger if not open enemy to his brother and he sees their power as resting in the marriage. And he knows his brother isn't exactly enthralled with Cersei, and recognizes the monster his eldest son is becoming.

So he takes a shot. I doubt he thought it was a walk off home run, but there was a chance. If it happens, corrosive and eventually fatal Lannister influence is replaced with ( in his eyes and FWWK) much more benign Tyrell influence, his brother's life and his own rest much more safely, and the Seven Kingdoms are much less likely to see the reign of a psychopath.

People seem to assume that his wanting Tyrell influence is some kind of sinister motive, but I think it was pretty open. Feudal kings have to have powerful influences around them. The trick is in choosing the right ones.