Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I disagree that is all there is to it. GRRM chose to have the very first character from a major family that we meet in the very first book to be a Royce. They are going to matter to the outcome.One thing I have been wondering is with the dwindling line of succession in the Vale for both House Arryn and house Royce (Waymar and Robar are both dead), where that puts the Stark kids in the lines of succession in the Vale. Lorra Royce was mother of the Wandering Wolf, grandmother of Lyara Stark who married her cousin Rickard Stark. She was also Rickard's great grandmother. So the Stark kids do appear somewhere in at least the Royce line of succession, if not the Arryn one. However if Lorra Royce's mother was an Arryn, that might put them in the Arryn line of succession somewhere as well.But mostly I think their role will come into play soon, when the LF/Tyrell alliance becomes known. Loras killed Robar for no good reason and owes an apology. It might not work and the Royces might not go along with LF's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I highly doubt the Stark's have any realistic claim to the Vale. Lorra was a Royce, not an Arryn, and a few generations back at that. There are bound to be closer claims to the Vale than any Stark child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I highly doubt the Stark's have any realistic claim to the Vale. Lorra was a Royce, not an Arryn, and a few generations back at that. There are bound to be closer claims to the Vale than any Stark child.There are no doubt some people in line before them, the question is, how many. The Stark kids ARE in line, it is just not clear how far back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 There are no doubt some people in line before them, the question is, how many. The Stark kids ARE in line, it is just not clear how far back. How are they in line? Lorra was a Royce,.not an Arryn. As far as we know, the Starks and Arryns never inter-married Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 How are they in line? Lorra was a Royce,.not an Arryn. As far as we know, the Starks and Arryns never inter-marriedI said the were in the Royce line. My only claim otherwise was that they MIGHT be in the Arryn line if Lorra's mother was an Arryn, but they are definitely in the Royce line. Royce is a Vale House. They are in the line of succession for a house in the Vale.However they may have further Vale blood connections through the Tullys. We don't have a Tully family tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecan Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 We really need more family trees. It would at least give us more to go on while waiting for TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 We really need more family trees. It would at least give us more to go on while waiting for TWOW.Yeah, but I have the impression the Tully tree might be spoilery. Littlefinger loved Catelyn's "impeccable bloodlines" it seems, which kind of suggests there is something significant hidden in there.Anyway, back to Robar being killed by Loras and what that will mean for Vale cooperation with LF's plans for the Vale /Tyrell alliance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 How are they in line? Lorra was a Royce,.not an Arryn. As far as we know, the Starks and Arryns never inter-married The Vale was settled by the Arryns 6,000 years ago (official timeline, wacky, but lets work with it). The Royces were already an important family. About 300 generations later, they shall have not intermarried directly or indirectly? No way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Vale was settled by the Arryns 6,000 years ago (official timeline, wacky, but lets work with it). The Royces were already an important family. About 300 generations later, they shall have not intermarried directly or indirectly? No way. I'm saying the Starks and Arryns never inter-married. Any claim that comes from a marriage between Royce-Arryn, and is carried through the female line into Stark-Royce is very dubious. I wasn't trying to suggest the Royces and the Arryns never married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm saying the Starks and Arryns never inter-married. Any claim that comes from a marriage between Royce-Arryn, and is carried through the female line into Stark-Royce is very dubious. I wasn't trying to suggest the Royces and the Arryns never married.Well regardless, any such relationship is valid in lines of succession if the males and their heirs are dead.Also the Tullys and Arryns may have inter-married before Lysa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The Royces were a First Men family that have a tie to probably house Stark in ancient times let alone in the last 50-60 years. Ned developed a strong bond with them when he lived and was brought up in the Vale. Good friendship and mutual admiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l2 0 5 5 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 House Royce is very interesting to me. An ancient house, very powerful politically in the Vale, a capable lord in Bronze Yohn (I believe Sansa recalls that he worked Ned over pretty good in the yard when escorting Waymar to the Wall). Wish we knew a little bit about his heir. We know more about the two dead sons, but nothing about the eldest (Andar, I think?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Woodland Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Well, this is pretty interesting. I agree in general that enough has been put out there about House Royce and Bronze Yohn in particular that's telling us to pay attention, and so we should. I think the speculation about magical armour is a bit of a stretch, but maybe. I'm probably being pedantic here, but I feel the need to point out that there are lesser houses and then there are lesser houses that aren't so lesser, that have power and prestige to rival the so-called "great houses". In several cases, one lesser house in particular seems to operate as something of a foil to the power of the regional House Paramount - think Yronwood vs. Martell or Harlaw vs. Greyjoy or the former Reynes to the Lannisters. House Royce seems to occupy that role in the vale vs. the Arryns. Which isn't to say they're rivals or anything, only that they have a certain amount of power and that power is known and recognized, which makes them more prominent given the current situation in the Vale. And so, in the case of House Royce, I think it's enough for them to simply be a powerful house in the Vale - first among equals of houses sworn to the Arryns. I don't think they need to have any major role other than that. Have to disagree with the bolded italics: Possible stretch yes but doubtful, I think we will find it is significant especially as both of House Royce Sigil's have bronze in them. Bronze, glyphs/runes are very connected to tCotF which is re-emerging through the Bran meeting BR storyline, & when you consider the heir's name is Bronze it's very significant. As Hippocras says in the answering post, Because this house is mentioned in the prologue by having one of it's heir's killed (sort of) so early on, then another tragic death, & for the house to keep being mentioned regularly is not an accident, this is a noble heroic house, the family tree's will reveal more hopefully as you say later. There are going to be interesting developments IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Have to disagree with the bolded italics:Possible stretch yes but doubtful, I think we will find it is significant especially as both of House Royce Sigil's have bronze in them. Bronze, glyphs/runes are very connected to tCotF which is re-emerging through the Bran meeting BR storyline, & when you consider the heir's name is Bronze it's very significant. As Hippocras says in the answering post, Because this house is mentioned in the prologue by having one of it's heir's killed (sort of) so early on, then another tragic death, & for the house to keep being mentioned regularly is not an accident, this is a noble heroic house, the family tree's will reveal more hopefully as you say later. There are going to be interesting developments IMHO.I dont know if its just a mistype in your post or not, but the Royce heir is Andar(I think. Something like that) Royce. The current lord is Yohn Royce. No-one is actually called Bronze, its just a "description" if you will, of nobles of House Royce. Like Daemon Targaryen and his 'Bronze Bitch' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I'm saying the Starks and Arryns never inter-married. Any claim that comes from a marriage between Royce-Arryn, and is carried through the female line into Stark-Royce is very dubious. I wasn't trying to suggest the Royces and the Arryns never married. They were the Kings/Lords of neighbouring regions for six millennia. Of course they intermarried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Woodland Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I dont know if its just a mistype in your post or not, but the Royce heir is Andar(I think. Something like that) Royce. The current lord is Yohn Royce. No-one is actually called Bronze, its just a "description" if you will, of nobles of House Royce. Like Just foggy brain @ 11.30pm & should be sleeping, what I should have typed was "son" rather than "heir" IIFC Waymar was the 5th son, so he went to the wall to make his way in the world. Can't recall from the books where Robar stood in the succession (or even if they were from the same branch) I'm assuming the characters are from the main branch? & Actually I didn't realise "Bronze" was a moniker, now you point it out it makes more sense - I always thought it was a pretty "Grand" sounding name. I can't decide if that changes the relevance though, I still feel that makes the connection to the CotF just as strong, it's like the family words, passed down oral history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshgaryen Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Their purpose in the story is yet to be unveiled IMO. But I do believe they will have an important role in ASOIAF, maybe sweetrobin will die and they assume the role of Lords of the East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I just can't help thinking they are going to put a wrench in LF's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just foggy brain @ 11.30pm & should be sleeping, what I should have typed was "son" rather than "heir" IIFC Waymar was the 5th son, so he went to the wall to make his way in the world. Can't recall from the books where Robar stood in the succession (or even if they were from the same branch) I'm assuming the characters are from the main branch? & Actually I didn't realise "Bronze" was a moniker, now you point it out it makes more sense - I always thought it was a pretty "Grand" sounding name. I can't decide if that changes the relevance though, I still feel that makes the connection to the CotF just as strong, it's like the family words, passed down oral history. Waymar was the third son. Robar the second. Bronze Jon has only one son left, his eldest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hippocras Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 Waymar was the third son. Robar the second. Bronze Jon has only one son left, his eldest.Yep. Dwindling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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