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What is the silliest debate?


Fanless Mace

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Definition of a "silly debate": bothering to attempt discussion with someone that blindly refuses to see any way of thinking other than their own, even when presented with firm logic. Nitpicking and semantics often involved.

Pretty sure this thread qualifies.

When people surround their opinion with a ton of words as if to try and say......that makes their opinion much more valid, if not fact in itself. That drives me crazy.

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1. Why must I accept your first sentence as being completly true?

2. Your second sentence seems to indicate that you don't believe in complete relativism either.

Did I say you have to accept anything? Disagree all you like.

No, I don't believe in complete relativism. But I also don't agree with holding someone to a standard they don't know exists. If person A has been raised to believe that X is true, I can't fault them for thinking X is true. It doesn't make X true, but it does explain why they think X is true and gives me a different perspective on any actions they might perform because of thinking X is true. That's the point.

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Copying and pasting my post from another thread because it more accurately fits in here. One specific comment towards the end will not apply, but everything else is about a discussion short-circuit I see on the internet in General and therefore in here in particular:

I think few concepts have served to short-circuit real discussion on issues in the modern internet world than the term 'hater' and the concept 'hating' as intellectual shorthand.

Not specific to this discussion at all, btw. I think this about soooo many things, and I regret it's use on behalf of arguments I support as much as arguments I don't. It's just completely antithetical to how and why I enjoy discussion and debate. If we really just want a circle-jerk in an echo chamber, than it serves it's purpose, but beyond that I don't get it.

I have raised this in debates about people who agree with me before, too, so please don't assume content is dictating this. God, how much I wish content was dictating this.

Additionally, in case it's ever suspected, if I consider any of you a friend, that is not predicated on my agreeing with you on every/any issue. Feel free to strongly disagree with my opinion on a fictional character without risking our friendship, is what I'm saying. I frequently encounter this entrenched camp thing here but honestly forget (whether by an act of will or failure I am unsure) who stands for what with a few exceptions, and I can also assume/guess some from handles or avatars on those rare occasions it occurs to me.

It's awesome that people are so passionate about this. Truly awesome and great and please never change. But it's perhaps regrettable when instead of serving to fuel discussion, that passion serves to try and preempt it or activate some sort of pre-ordered collective road block.

I am in part here motivated to comment because a poster I really truly respect felt the need to raise the implied threat or justice of 'others who think like you have been banned' in response to an opinion. Not a behavioural violation or w/e, but a sincere opinion about a character. Again, I think that kind of thing follows hard on the heels of un-ideas like 'hater'.

I love this site and all the passions. I love being wrong much more than being right. I love posters who disagree with me in a way that makes me reconsider more than posters who just agree with me. I would really miss any of that.

Edit: to reiterate, this has nothing to do with the specifics of this discussion, but something I feel strongly on a regular basis across many discussions on these boards. The 'banned' thing is the only part of this that's specific, and even that I've seen used many times before. So this has nothing to do with whether text supports X or whether things are 'proven' or w/e. There is room for all kinds of opinion based on differing standards of 'proof', IMO. I sometimes people assume an intention to offend simply because they feel offended, and often I suspect there is no such intent at all.

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And your not getting mine. Ethical rightness or wrongness just isn't a simple matter of societal norms, unless you buy completely into moral relativism.

I understand your point. But...

If person A believes that rape is ok, it doesn't make it so just because A believes rape to be ok.

Just because you believe your point to be true, it doesn't make it so.

If person B believes that rape is not ok, that doesn't make it so just because B believes rape to be not ok. What makes it not ok, is societal agreement that it is not ok. One example where that societal agreement shows up in our world, is with the situation of the kidnapped girls in Africa. One example in Planetos, Dany freeing the slaves; the change in opinion there is not because Dany believes slavery is wrong, but because Dany believes slavery is wrong and Dany has dragons.

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I hate,hate,hate the endless quibbling over army numbers and strengths. It has some importance in the books, but people read waaaay to much into it, trying to figure out how many troops each leader had at each part of the books. If GRRM didnt mention it, its probably not important.


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  • 4 weeks later...

I was arguing about the difference between fertility and tonnage in agricultural production between the Vale and the North with Lee-sensei.

And how do you plan on punishing yourself for such a thing?

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"Daenerys is the true queen of the Seven Kingdoms!";

"Jon is the true king of the Seven Kingdoms!";

" Stannis is the true king of the Seven Kingdoms!".

Pfff... Everyone knows that Tommen is the true King of the Seven Kingdoms.

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"X is Rhaegar" or "X is a Targaryen". I'm sick of them. Let's just have all the characters be Rhaegar Targaryen, even females, how about that?



Also, this is not a silly debate but rather one that has been talked literally to death, and it is R+L=J. Why is it still being discussed so much to this day and why is it a pinned thread? Yes, everyone in the world agrees with the theory, so just let it go, we will get the confirmation when the next books are out (whenever that might be).


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