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[No Spoilers] EP408 Discussion

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Non-spoiler discussion of the show goes here, for those who've not read the books or those who have but are happy to not actually reference them at all in discussion, taking each episode as it comes.

This topic should open automatically when the show begins airing.

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Holy Shit!

Oberyn was awesome! But I may not ever get that image of what the Mountain did to the Red Viper's head out of my mind. For me, worse than the Red Wedding, and that's saying a lot.

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Just.. Oh my god. Thanks to spoiler I knew what would happen at the fight. But that... Ew. Disgusting. I nearly cried. I am traumatised.



Arya was awesome. The Hound's face. Priceless. Her laughter made me laugh.



Sansa had truly something of Katniss Everdeen. She now understands the game.



Daenerys. So cold. Whew.


Edited by MissHarington

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I just realised after 17 episodes of showing Winterfell in the opening credits we finally get a glimpse of it again.


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Good episode.

I'm reading the books, but haven't gotten to the duel yet. Hoped Oberyn would finish of the Mountain, but that surely didn't happen. Really nice fight, but what a gruesome ending. Poor Oberyn and Tyrion.

Roose Bolton, Warden of the North. He should have enough to do in the following time with Mance's army coming.

Can't wait for the next episode.

Edited by SerChristian

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Alfie was amazing once again as Theon/Reek. It was hard not flinch or get tense as he tried to make them yield.


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Even though I knew it was coming, I still can't get over the shock of Oberyn's death, what a great scene though!

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Wow. I certainly did not expect that. Good that I did not bet on the outcome of the fight. Too bad we've already lost Oberyn again. But surely somebody must save Tyrion...



I like where they're going with Sansa's story, that's going to be interesting. Bride to be to the king of the Vale who's being educated by his stepfather who happens to have a thing for his niece / daughter in law.



Can somebody (no spoilers) explain to me how you interpreted Arya's laughter?


Edited by valirpaz

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Can somebody (no spoilers) explain to me how you interpreted Arya's laughter?

Hysterical. She escaped with a Night's Watch convoy hoping to reach her family at Winterfell. The journey is dangerous. The convoy gets destroyed and she's taken prisoner. She witnesses torture and fears she'll be next. She's given the same clothes she'll use for seasons, and maybe years, to come. She escapes and still tries to get to her family. She's captured by the BWB, but they want to ransom her to her family at Riverrun. They sell Gendry to Mel, so she escapes (again). She's captured by the Hound, but the Hound also wants to ransom her to Riverrun. So they go in a dangerous trip. But her family has left Riverrun, so they need to continue farther away to the Twins. When she's at the gates, the RW erupts around her and she sees the Freys parading Robb's decapitated body with Greywind's head sticked on top. They leave that dangerous place. The Hound decides to ransom her to her aunt, her last living relative who's alive and rich. So they go in yet another dangerous journey. They finally make it. And now that she's finally safe, that she's finally reunited with some relative, that they finally succeed... her aunt died three days ago.

So yes, she just laughs. What else can she do with the pile of shit being so incredibly high and hopes so utterly destroyed at every turn?

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It's a "You've got to be fucking kidding me" laugh.


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Hysterical. She escaped with a Night's Watch convoy hoping to reach her family at Winterfell. The journey is dangerous. The convoy gets destroyed and she's taken prisoner. She witnesses torture and fears she'll be next. She's given the same clothes she'll use for seasons, and maybe years, to come. She escapes and still tries to get to her family. She's captured by the BWB, but they want to ransom her to her family at Riverrun. They sell Gendry to Mel, so she escapes (again). She's captured by the Hound, but the Hound also wants to ransom her to Riverrun. So they go in a dangerous trip. But her family has left Riverrun, so they need to continue farther away to the Twins. When she's at the gates, the RW erupts around her and she sees the Freys parading Robb's decapitated body with Greywind's head sticked on top. They leave that dangerous place. The Hound decides to ransom her to her aunt, her last living relative who's alive and rich. So they go in yet another dangerous journey. They finally make it. And now that she's finally safe, that she's finally reunited with some relative, that they finally succeed... her aunt died three days ago.

So yes, she just laughs. What else can she do with the pile of shit being so incredibly high and hopes so utterly destroyed at every turn?

Agreed. At this point, what else can she do? She's just declared herself to be Ayra Stark after being so many other people at this point, and it turns out...she's still screwed.

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HOLY SHIT WHAT THE F*** OF THAT



The Mountain was dead. Oberyn threw his lance in his body ! He was supposed to die and not to stand up and...! How the hell he was able to crush his head... I loved Oberyn...


Anyway great week episode though... Hard wait for the next one !


Edited by XTwipz

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For me the duel was a bit disappointing. By now I know that a main "good guy" is probably going to die a brutal and humiliating death at around this point of the season. So it wasn't very shocking that it happened. But I felt like the head "popping" was over the top. It was like the writers had sat around and brainstormed about how they could make the death as shocking as possible. Punching him in the face and caving in his skull, or smacking his skull against the ground, would have been better imo. Squishing his head like an orange just didn't work for me. And that's regardless of whether that's the way it happens in the books or whether it could theoretically be done irl, it just looked too ridiculous in the context of the show imo. I was also getting strong Princess Bride vibes and the whole taunting the enemy when they "appear" to be beaten and then them coming to life and kicking your arse, was a bit of a cliche. I'm sure everyone saw that coming from a mile away, which makes me wonder how the hell this great warrior Oberyn didn't. Yeah, he was emotional, he's still a highly trained warrior who should know better.



Not sure about Ramsay, don't know whether I really give a crap about his story arc. But maybe it's really just a pit stop for Theon. But then Theon seems like he's down and out and now we're following Ramsay primarily and not Theon. Frankly not sure how Ramsay's still alive after fighting Theons sisters gang without any armour. It was nice that he got made a "Bolton" and everything, but yeah... still unconvinced.



I really like Roose Bolton though, and I feel like Roose is sort of the Northern version of Tywin, and that could be a good rivalry. I'd prefer to see more of him instead.



The Ironborn really suck in the show, which is a shame because Theon's dad seemed like a badass. It's funny, because Theon taking Winterfell seems like the most impressive thing that any of the Ironborn have done in the show, even though he totally cocked it up. They're damn quick to mutiny and surrender, Ramsay took them out really easily, disappointing.



Danny sending Jorah away was a stupid move. Why does she think she can trust the dude who was the Kingsguard Commander for Robert and (briefly) Joffrey, and a sellsword who cut off his commanders heads at the drop of a hat? Jorah saved her from the poisoning, and has been by far her most valuable advisor, and risked his life for her about a million times. It's obvious he's totally pussy whipped and devoted to her. There seemed to be a suggestion that Jorah was involved in the death of Danny's child as well. I guess Danny probably would love to believe that all her stupid decisions that led to the death of her child and Drogo were a result of Jorah betraying her, and not just her own stupidity. Maybe I'm being too cynical.



I don't care about the "romance" between Grey Worm and Missandre. I feel like the show already spends too much time analyzing the sexual desires of men who've had their bits cut off with Varys and Theon. Don't need another whole sub-plot devoted to that topic imo. Happy to see more of their characters, but not in a romance sub plot. Hopefully this was a one off.



Bad changes for Dany's story all round.



I love Jaimie and Tyrion, not sure about the whole beetles thing, but I like seeing them get some quality bro time.



Nice to see Sansa growing up a bit. Didn't like how Little Finger seemed to manage to get himself where he was at the mercy of Sansa though, amateur hour? Was good to see Baelish take charge of the Vale and Robin though. Baelish knows what's up, and could definitely be a proper contender with the Vale behind him. Sansa in the black dress was a bit obvious though.



Hound and Arya are just great. Worried about his bite wound though, sounds like it's infected badly, and they've just been humanising him in the last few episodes, which is what they generally do just before they kill characters off. That's going to suck balls.


Edited by Angalin
removed spoiler

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Hysterical.

...

So yes, she just laughs. What else can she do with the pile of shit being so incredibly high and hopes so utterly destroyed at every turn?

Agreed. At this point, what else can she do? She's just declared herself to be Ayra Stark after being so many other people at this point, and it turns out...she's still screwed.

Thanks for explaining. You're right, makes sense.

Although generally I don't see, how this should change their plans. Yes the aunt's dead but that still means that she's got her cousin in the vale and shouldn't make it less safe for her. And if you apply traditional nobility values her cousin would still reward the hound. But I'm sure there'll be an event why that won't happen.

Edited by valirpaz

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Hysterical. She escaped with a Night's Watch convoy hoping to reach her family at Winterfell. The journey is dangerous. The convoy gets destroyed and she's taken prisoner. She witnesses torture and fears she'll be next. She's given the same clothes she'll use for seasons, and maybe years, to come. She escapes and still tries to get to her family. She's captured by the BWB, but they want to ransom her to her family at Riverrun. They sell Gendry to Mel, so she escapes (again). She's captured by the Hound, but the Hound also wants to ransom her to Riverrun. So they go in a dangerous trip. But her family has left Riverrun, so they need to continue farther away to the Twins. When she's at the gates, the RW erupts around her and she sees the Freys parading Robb's decapitated body with Greywind's head sticked on top. They leave that dangerous place. The Hound decides to ransom her to her aunt, her last living relative who's alive and rich. So they go in yet another dangerous journey. They finally make it. And now that she's finally safe, that she's finally reunited with some relative, that they finally succeed... her aunt died three days ago.

So yes, she just laughs. What else can she do with the pile of shit being so incredibly high and hopes so utterly destroyed at every turn?

Wow...I thought it was just because The Hound wasn't going to get his reward/ransom money.

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Exploding head, wow, i just kept shouting at the TV, KILL HIM ALREADY, stop gloating because i could see it coming:(


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He was neither "taunting his enemy" nor "gloating", nor was he "showboating" or anything like that. He showboated a bit at the beginning of the fight when he twirled his spear, but he pretty quickly got down to business, and defeated the Mountain quite handily.



The problem was that HE WANTED TO GET A CONFESSION FROM THE MOUNTAIN SO IT WOULD BE OUT IN THE OPEN THAT TYWIN ORDERED ELIA'S DEATH.



And he wanted that so bad, he was focussed on it so much, that he let his guard slip.



However, he did get a bit of what he wanted. While everyone "knew" that the Mountain killed Elia's children (who were potential Targaryen heirs at the time of the rebellion) and raped and murdered Elia, it was up to that point a rumour. (It happened during the sack of King's Landing, so chaos, so no-one really sure.)



Now it's confessed fact, out in the open; that's the horror and irony of the Mountain confessing it while he's popping Oberyn's melon. Not quite the connection between Tywin and the Mountain's act that Oberyn might have preferred, but at least some damage has been done to the Lannister name.


Edited by Peter George Stewart

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Now it's confessed fact, out in the open; that's the horror and irony of the Mountain confessing it while he's popping Oberyn's melon. Not quite the connection between Tywin and the Mountain's act that Oberyn might have preferred, but at least some damage has been done to the Lannister name.

Some damage to the Lannister name... Yeah, but I still think that it's a poor consolation for what happened... May the Mountain dies and it would be better anyway...

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